8 ms·

No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking

78 points by kareemm 11y ago

meesles 11y ago
This is a very beautiful story, but not very thought-provoking and it doesn't really offer anything new. (To me, at least)
- mschuster91 11y ago
  The point is, how many of us techies suffer from similar problems? After all, many alcoholics started excessive drinking due to stress - and I'd say the startup world is filled with people under loads of stress. 80-hour weeks are going to take a cut of your soul and I wonder sometimes how many of us are trying to replace said cut with alcohol or other drugs.
Nadya 11y ago
TL;DR being "You can lead a horse to fresh water but you can't make it drink." Or in this case; not drink. I agree with meesles sentiment.
tossit123 11y ago
weird that she just flat breaks AA tradition 11 "we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” The reason this is so important is that should this woman have a "slip" - which LOTS of alcoholics do - now the world, and needy alcoholics, have one more reason to dismiss AA. Try it before you judge it. AA finds u when u need it, not to be traded for a drunkalog to generate page views.
- throwaway999777 11y ago
  > The reason this is so important is that should this woman have a "slip" - which LOTS of alcoholics do - now the world, and needy alcoholics, have one more reason to dismiss AA. > Try it before you judge it. An organization that tries to inflate its own public success rate, and then asks people to keep an open mind towards it rather than dismiss it. Ok.
  - vernie 11y ago
    Yea, better to do nothing, I'm sure it'll sort itself out.
    - throwaway999777 11y ago
      Yes. You can either do AA or do nothing with your problem. That's the only two options in the world. Jeez these AA PR snippets are just stellar.
    - eulo_ 11y ago
      From all studies I've seen it does. As a vague rule addiction lasts at most around 10 years
  - jredwards 11y ago
    I haven't dug up the stats in the while, but last I checked, their success rate was exactly the same as cold-turkey going it alone.
    - Devthrowaway80 11y ago
      We've had this discussion ad nauseam on other addiction threads here. The TL;DR of the literature is that in the short term, most methods have the same "success rate", where success here is defined as successfully achieving abstinence from the problem substance. Participation in AA or other support groups (eg. SMART/Rational Recovery) is associated with substantially increased rates of continuous abstinence at the 1, 3 and 5 year marks after quitting, although there may be some self-selection bias going on there (participation rates being higher among the more motivated and so on).
      - thedufer 11y ago
        > Participation in AA is associated with substantially increased rates of continuous abstinence at the 1, 3 and 5 year marks after quitting It's been shown, as much as is possible, that that's all selection bias. People rarely fall off the wagon and then keep going to meetings. AA's rules around anonymity and consent make it conveniently impossible to run good studies, so they are able to (rightly, for the most part) write off any study that runs against them, but are also unable to show any positive findings that don't fall prey to very obvious problems.
- zues 11y ago
  I have found that lots of aa members have a casual understanding of the traditions of aa. They attend meetings, and share about personal feelings but have little desire to learn and live by the traditions that were created out of hard lessons. The particular tradition you refer to (appropriately) is about protecting AA from the ego's of its members and protecting members from arrogance which everyone know 'precedes a fall'. Another misunderstanding of this tradition has to do with confusion with confidentiality. It was never intended for members to be secret from each other. This tradition is at the level of press, radio and films. Some people have tried to say that anonymity is at the level of members with each other, and that members should hide their full name from each other. In my opinion (which could be wrong) this is due to the influence of treatment centers in the 80's and 90's on the established program of AA. Regardless, I find that careful anonymous sharing about the program of AA online is ok as long as you don't identify yourself as an AA member or use your full name and picture. Or if you do use your full name and picture, you shouldn't admit membership in AA. I do not care to comment on my personal affiliation :)
  - imissmyjuno 11y ago
    > protecting members from arrogance which everyone know 'precedes a fall' I feel like nothing can _really_ protect you from members' arrogance if they were determined enough. The rule, in my mind, only creates a certain exclusiveness shrouded in secrecy, which as far dealing with alcoholism seems pretty pointless. If it really works then why not spread the word?
- trowawee 11y ago
  Take your own inventory and let others take their own, dude.
- OvidNaso 11y ago
  This actually is not the primary reason for the tradition. See: http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_tradition11.pdf http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_tradition11.pdf
Animats 11y ago
Note the total lack of self-blame, or taking responsibility for one's own problems. Even the title, "No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking", puts the blame on someone, anyone, else.
- RockyMcNuts 11y ago
  I could never be an alcoholic, alcohol does nothing for me except dulling the senses. But there were kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. It was like heroin (I imagine, never tried it). Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. And this person is writing about it, exposing themself to potential criticism like this, and taking action about it. Does judging this person make you feel like a better person? Because it's not helpful in any way. If you've avoided problems, good for you. If you haven't, and you've had struggles, it doesn't make you a hero, and it doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a human being.
  - smtddr 11y ago
    >>I could never be an alcoholic, alcohol does nothing for me except dulling the senses. I think one of the common(if not primary) ways people become alcholics is when their senses keep delivering overwhelmingly negative signals and they want it to just stop. When you feel that your life is awful in every way imaginable and you just don't want to feel anything anymore...
  - Devthrowaway80 11y ago
    Interesting to hear that. The first time I ever had unrestricted access to alcohol was a revelation - like I'd suddenly found the cure for everything that ailed me. I lost count at something like 26 standard drinks. Fast forward about two decades and surprise, I'm an alcoholic!
  - fredkbloggs 11y ago
    > kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. > Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. Can you explain how you got from point A to point B above? I don't understand how your observation implies dependency, addiction, or any of the numerous problems that alcoholism causes in someone's life. It is also true that some people have inherited traits that interfere with processing alcohol. But I don't understand how you can conclude that someone has such a trait from observing their behavior when drinking, nor how you conclude that such a person is an alcoholic. In fact, perhaps the most common genetic quirk (it's not really a defect) is a missing encoding for alcohol dehydrogenase, which according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction) is correlated with lower rates of alcoholism. Of course, others exist also. Not really interested in the emotional reactions here on either side. Just interested in why/how you conclude that these three things are strongly correlated/causal.
jheriko 11y ago
i wonder if this was a man how the story would go. much worse i'd imagine :/
- codezero 11y ago
  Why do you think that?
- rconti 11y ago
  As a man, what? I read the article a couple of days ago, but I don't recall anything here being particularly gender-specific.
- op00to 11y ago
  It wasn't a man that wrote the article?
  - rconti 11y ago
    Kera Yonker. Brian Rea did the illustration. I will admit, though, I assumed it was a woman just from the male romantic interest, which is my bad.
    - cb18 11y ago
      I will admit, though, I assumed it was a woman just from the male romantic interest, which is my bad. What? There's something to be said for not being hostile to those with different proclivities, however, there is certainly no reason to apologize for assuming something that is true in the vast majority of cases. It's also not at all unlikely that you would consciously or unconsciously pick up on things in writing that would allow you to make a better than random guess about the sex of the author. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/writing_styles.asp http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/writing_styles.asp http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php
    - jheriko 11y ago
      i actually assumed it was a gay man until later for some reason. no idea why... these kinds of first impressions are always hit and miss. it goes to show what terrible judges of character we all are. :)
siliconc0w 11y ago
On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoholics_anonymous_theres_a_better_way_to_treat_addiction/ http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like depression.
- FilterSweep 11y ago
  The underlying philosophy of AA is often ignored by the general public and involves an ego death the likes of which have very few equals. You are indoctrinated to the fact that not only do you have a "disease," or problem, but you are also a weak human being for having succumbed to such disease in the first place. Fortunately most people don't take the entire philosophy of the group to heart - if they did, I couldn't imagine the psychological toll it would create on an attendee.
  - mikestew 11y ago
    but you are also a weak human being for having succumbed to such disease in the first place. That's pretty much the antithesis of the AA philosophy, as well as the exact opposite of the "alcoholism is a disease" thinking. IOW, no one thinks you got cancer because you're a "weak human being". If there's any "ego death" involved, it's that you're not going to solve this in your own. Source: attended my share of AA meetings and even read the book.
    - FilterSweep 11y ago
      >Source: anecdotal data trashing those who you don't agree with isn't a fair justification to downvote. My point is proven in the _first_ and _third_ steps of the program, In the admission that you have a problem, and that you are helpless to solve the problem yourself, respectively. [0][1] What about your point? Your personal opinion of it? It is the admission that you are _helpless_ to your disease, and it is that very reason you don't have the self efficacy to overcome your issues yourself. An ego death involves, in albeit, sometimes flawed Jungian psychology a loss of identity, and A transformation of ones psyche in such a way that the Self is not perceived the same way after such transformation.[2] MY argument is that AA involves such ego death in that your admission over having a lack of self-efficacy in solving your own alcoholism is transformative, and you can't do it without the group or other external help, a la Step 3. I am a different person than you. I find my inability to solve problems for myself _weakness_. And just because you disagree, instead of positing an argument against my thoughts, you downvote my comment and claim you "read the book." This was the same exact fashion of discourse that had me leave AA in the first place. I handled "alcoholism" differently. My life is a legal nightmare but alcohol isn't a personal issue. In sum: People read things differently. But you don't see my flagging your comments because I disagree. [0] a real source: http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-1/ http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-1/ [1] http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-3/ http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-3/ [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death my source: sentenced to AA, went to a few meetings, found it damaging, and worked out an alternative treatment plan with court.
siliconc0w 11y ago
On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoholics_anonymous_theres_a_better_way_to_treat_addiction/ http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like it was depression - though it's unclear if she is seeking treatment outside of AA.
- speeder 11y ago
  I clearly have some kind of vice related to caffeine... In the hardest periods of my life I managed to guzzle 6 liters of coca-cola every day, plus eating lots of chocolate, and drinking lots of coffee and tea, of course this also ruined my overall health. I recently managed to "get clean", but I also stopped working, then I gave up, decided to buy 1 liter of red-bull style energy drink (not redbull itself because I can't afford it), drink it all in one go... then I could work, and I felt MUCH better... but I am also drinking lots of coca-cola and eating lots of chocolate again. I am seeing a psychiatrist, and seemly I have ADHD, and caffeine (and other stimulants) are a common way to self-medicate, and many ADHD sufferers, specially those not on legal meds, end having some strong vices (not only stopping at caffeine... cocaine, meth, and other strongly stimulant drugs abuse is also common). I started taking Ritalin (Adderall is illegal here) this week, for now only half a pill per day, because my psychiatrist is inexperienced and probably wants to be safe, let's see if with it (and an increased dosage later) I will be able to stop abusing caffeine, my kidneys (that had stones) and my liver (that is covered in fat to the point of failing to work properly) will thank me. (I am also going to a psychologist...)
  - port6667 11y ago
    A liter of redbull subsitute? You sound like an addict just since you're talking quantities of caffeine. I hope you get past this. it's especially difficult because a lot of people don't realize caffene is a drug. Like watching a couple who drink three bottles of wine a day talk down on someone for drinking a liter of spirits as an alcoholic. They're one and the same.
deleted 11y ago
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mdip 11y ago
I don't know how effective Alcoholics Anonymous really is (not saying one way or the other), but having the accountability placed on you by friends is a helpful thing in many other tough situations in life. You can see it underlying many useful bits of advice ("Have a cofounder" always comes to mind -- someone to motivate you when you're unable to do so yourself, perhaps?) Addiction is no joke and anything that can provide relief or help to those who have found themselves caught up in it would be a huge thing. I always think back to a former friend of mine who battled with opiates. She lost her family and children -- well after she had completed a recovery program and been sober for a year. When she started with pills there was a very good reason -- several surgeries and a lot of pain management. When the pain was well and gone, she was left with a strong addiction. The woman she was before she started popping pills regularly and the woman she is now (completely sober) are different people. She told me that long term opiate addiction changes your brain chemistry in such a way that depression becomes a way of life -- I'm not sure if that's true, but it looks like it is with her. The worst part is that her marriage problems started well after she had cleaned up. Her husband, still a friend, said he couldn't stand the woman she'd become and confessed to me that he sometimes wished she'd never stopped. Before the judgement starts, he's a solid guy and I stand by his decision to fight for full custody of his children (you'd have to understand the whole story which I can't do justice to here). Her description of addiction still haunts me, though. She said "you need it like you need food after having not eaten for a week". She's done a week long fast (as have I). She'd know. That description is the only thing I've heard that adequately explains why addicts will put their children in harms way if it means getting their next fix (ever wonder why cigarette prices can go up 600% in two years and people still smoke?). I watched her become completely broke buying pills from scary people in scary places. I've heard from others some of the things she was willing to do to get enough pills to get her through a day; it's way beyond what you already couldn't imagine a suburban mother of 4 doing.
- blazespin 11y ago
  Alcoholism isn't so much about addiction as it is about binge drinking. Lots of people have a couple of drinks everyday and function quite well. It's the four manhattans in quick succession where things go awry.
billjings 11y ago
I have a short list of books that I recommend that have changed my worldview. First and foremost on that list is Bruce Alexander's _The Globalization Of Addiction_: http://www.amazon.com/The-Globalization-Addiction-Poverty-Spirit/dp/0199588716 http://www.amazon.com/The-Globalization-Addiction-Poverty-Sp... If you've got the bug, that book is not going to help you. It'll just tell you how screwed you are. If you don't have the bug, I think that book might help you understand the problem.
- gigamuflon 11y ago
  Sorry for going off-topic but I'd be interested seeing your reading list. Care to share it?
  - billjings 11y ago
    It's not like I have it written down, but... * Plato's Republic. It's not meant to be read alone, I think. Read it with a like minded group of folks a book at a time. Our discussions of this work still inform how I think of all the ways people form groups together, in more or less ideal forms. * The Master And His Emissary. This book opened up the ancient worldview to me, and also gave me a strong rap on the head that "figuring things out" might not be the best way to navigate through life.
madaxe_again 11y ago
Ah, this rang so many bells. My ex of ten years ago drank huge amounts and was in utter denial about there even being a possibility of a problem. I used to have to go out and find her, usually asleep in an alley, or passed out in a bar's toilets - the worst occasion was when she threw a brick at me, as I had come to pry her away from a bar, and the recoil sent her tumbling into the Thames, in December - fished her out - and the next morning she was convinced I had pushed her in. Stabbed me with a stiletto heel a few months later, because I was trying to stop her hurling our furniture from a fifth story window. Ultimately we broke up as it's remarkably easy to bamboozle a drunk into admitting that yes, they have cheated on you dozens of times with dozens of men. This woman is a high court judge now. As far as I can tell, most barristers and judges are full blown alcoholics. For some reason I loved her - probably in the same way as I love my three legged cat - broken, piteous things, both. I suppose the point of where I'm going is that the only person who can rescue you is yourself. I tried for far too long for both of our sakes.
- hammock 11y ago
  That story would make a brilliant song.
- dylanz 11y ago
  Man, what a chapter of your life. I've had something similar, and it's amazing to what extreme trials and tribulations you'll go through with someone during a relationship. I like to think we learn a lot from these experiences, so maybe the three legged cats are there for a reason.
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    It was heartbreaking - both because she betrayed me, but moreso because I realised that I was no small part of what was making her worse - she was dashing herself to pieces between the guilt she felt over her trespasses and the righteous indignation she felt at me trying to help her... I've not spoken with her in a decade, I hope she's at least found a way of living with her demons - but as I said, drinking is a huge part of the legal professional culture, so as long as she's inured in that world, I don't know what hope there is. Either way, it's her life. I guess the main thing I learned is that kindness can kill, be careful how you apply it.
aaron695 11y ago
This article to me is about depression not alcohol addiction as the author points out - > The absence of alcohol revealed that my “dark soul” was the manifestation of a decades-long depression. Booze had masked its diagnosis while also egging it on. They to me are more talking about binge drinking. I'm not sure an addict can just go to one AA meeting and stop. Sure it's possible, but to me they didn't sound like an addict, more self destructive.

78 points by kareemm 11y ago

This is a very beautiful story, but not very thought-provoking and it doesn't really offer anything new. (To me, at least)

mschuster91 11y ago
The point is, how many of us techies suffer from similar problems? After all, many alcoholics started excessive drinking due to stress - and I'd say the startup world is filled with people under loads of stress. 80-hour weeks are going to take a cut of your soul and I wonder sometimes how many of us are trying to replace said cut with alcohol or other drugs.

Nadya 11y ago

TL;DR being "You can lead a horse to fresh water but you can't make it drink." Or in this case; not drink. I agree with meesles sentiment.

tossit123 11y ago

weird that she just flat breaks AA tradition 11 "we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” The reason this is so important is that should this woman have a "slip" - which LOTS of alcoholics do - now the world, and needy alcoholics, have one more reason to dismiss AA. Try it before you judge it. AA finds u when u need it, not to be traded for a drunkalog to generate page views.

throwaway999777 11y ago
> The reason this is so important is that should this woman have a "slip" - which LOTS of alcoholics do - now the world, and needy alcoholics, have one more reason to dismiss AA. > Try it before you judge it. An organization that tries to inflate its own public success rate, and then asks people to keep an open mind towards it rather than dismiss it. Ok.
- vernie 11y ago
  Yea, better to do nothing, I'm sure it'll sort itself out.
  - throwaway999777 11y ago
    Yes. You can either do AA or do nothing with your problem. That's the only two options in the world. Jeez these AA PR snippets are just stellar.
  - eulo_ 11y ago
    From all studies I've seen it does. As a vague rule addiction lasts at most around 10 years
- jredwards 11y ago
  I haven't dug up the stats in the while, but last I checked, their success rate was exactly the same as cold-turkey going it alone.
  - Devthrowaway80 11y ago
    We've had this discussion ad nauseam on other addiction threads here. The TL;DR of the literature is that in the short term, most methods have the same "success rate", where success here is defined as successfully achieving abstinence from the problem substance. Participation in AA or other support groups (eg. SMART/Rational Recovery) is associated with substantially increased rates of continuous abstinence at the 1, 3 and 5 year marks after quitting, although there may be some self-selection bias going on there (participation rates being higher among the more motivated and so on).
    - thedufer 11y ago
      > Participation in AA is associated with substantially increased rates of continuous abstinence at the 1, 3 and 5 year marks after quitting It's been shown, as much as is possible, that that's all selection bias. People rarely fall off the wagon and then keep going to meetings. AA's rules around anonymity and consent make it conveniently impossible to run good studies, so they are able to (rightly, for the most part) write off any study that runs against them, but are also unable to show any positive findings that don't fall prey to very obvious problems.
zues 11y ago
I have found that lots of aa members have a casual understanding of the traditions of aa. They attend meetings, and share about personal feelings but have little desire to learn and live by the traditions that were created out of hard lessons. The particular tradition you refer to (appropriately) is about protecting AA from the ego's of its members and protecting members from arrogance which everyone know 'precedes a fall'. Another misunderstanding of this tradition has to do with confusion with confidentiality. It was never intended for members to be secret from each other. This tradition is at the level of press, radio and films. Some people have tried to say that anonymity is at the level of members with each other, and that members should hide their full name from each other. In my opinion (which could be wrong) this is due to the influence of treatment centers in the 80's and 90's on the established program of AA. Regardless, I find that careful anonymous sharing about the program of AA online is ok as long as you don't identify yourself as an AA member or use your full name and picture. Or if you do use your full name and picture, you shouldn't admit membership in AA. I do not care to comment on my personal affiliation :)
- imissmyjuno 11y ago
  > protecting members from arrogance which everyone know 'precedes a fall' I feel like nothing can _really_ protect you from members' arrogance if they were determined enough. The rule, in my mind, only creates a certain exclusiveness shrouded in secrecy, which as far dealing with alcoholism seems pretty pointless. If it really works then why not spread the word?
trowawee 11y ago
Take your own inventory and let others take their own, dude.
OvidNaso 11y ago
This actually is not the primary reason for the tradition. See: http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_tradition11.pdf http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_tradition11.pdf

Animats 11y ago

Note the total lack of self-blame, or taking responsibility for one's own problems. Even the title, "No One to Rescue Me from My Drinking", puts the blame on someone, anyone, else.

RockyMcNuts 11y ago
I could never be an alcoholic, alcohol does nothing for me except dulling the senses. But there were kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. It was like heroin (I imagine, never tried it). Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. And this person is writing about it, exposing themself to potential criticism like this, and taking action about it. Does judging this person make you feel like a better person? Because it's not helpful in any way. If you've avoided problems, good for you. If you haven't, and you've had struggles, it doesn't make you a hero, and it doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a human being.
- smtddr 11y ago
  >>I could never be an alcoholic, alcohol does nothing for me except dulling the senses. I think one of the common(if not primary) ways people become alcholics is when their senses keep delivering overwhelmingly negative signals and they want it to just stop. When you feel that your life is awful in every way imaginable and you just don't want to feel anything anymore...
- Devthrowaway80 11y ago
  Interesting to hear that. The first time I ever had unrestricted access to alcohol was a revelation - like I'd suddenly found the cure for everything that ailed me. I lost count at something like 26 standard drinks. Fast forward about two decades and surprise, I'm an alcoholic!
- fredkbloggs 11y ago
  > kids I knew, from the first drink of their lives, it made them a different, less stressed, happier person. > Point is, some people genetically have an alcohol problem. Can you explain how you got from point A to point B above? I don't understand how your observation implies dependency, addiction, or any of the numerous problems that alcoholism causes in someone's life. It is also true that some people have inherited traits that interfere with processing alcohol. But I don't understand how you can conclude that someone has such a trait from observing their behavior when drinking, nor how you conclude that such a person is an alcoholic. In fact, perhaps the most common genetic quirk (it's not really a defect) is a missing encoding for alcohol dehydrogenase, which according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction) is correlated with lower rates of alcoholism. Of course, others exist also. Not really interested in the emotional reactions here on either side. Just interested in why/how you conclude that these three things are strongly correlated/causal.

jheriko 11y ago

i wonder if this was a man how the story would go. much worse i'd imagine :/

codezero 11y ago
Why do you think that?
rconti 11y ago
As a man, what? I read the article a couple of days ago, but I don't recall anything here being particularly gender-specific.
op00to 11y ago
It wasn't a man that wrote the article?
- rconti 11y ago
  Kera Yonker. Brian Rea did the illustration. I will admit, though, I assumed it was a woman just from the male romantic interest, which is my bad.
  - cb18 11y ago
    I will admit, though, I assumed it was a woman just from the male romantic interest, which is my bad. What? There's something to be said for not being hostile to those with different proclivities, however, there is certainly no reason to apologize for assuming something that is true in the vast majority of cases. It's also not at all unlikely that you would consciously or unconsciously pick up on things in writing that would allow you to make a better than random guess about the sex of the author. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/writing_styles.asp http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/writing_styles.asp http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php
  - jheriko 11y ago
    i actually assumed it was a gay man until later for some reason. no idea why... these kinds of first impressions are always hit and miss. it goes to show what terrible judges of character we all are. :)

siliconc0w 11y ago

On a similar topic - AA actually isn't that effective: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoholics_anonymous_theres_a_better_way_to_treat_addiction/ http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoho... I haven't read the book the above article is covering but it seems Dodes argues psychotherapy is a better alternative as 'addiction' is usually just a manifestation of self-destructive/self medication behavior ultimately due to untreated psychological issues. In this OP's case this is looks like depression.

FilterSweep 11y ago
The underlying philosophy of AA is often ignored by the general public and involves an ego death the likes of which have very few equals. You are indoctrinated to the fact that not only do you have a "disease," or problem, but you are also a weak human being for having succumbed to such disease in the first place. Fortunately most people don't take the entire philosophy of the group to heart - if they did, I couldn't imagine the psychological toll it would create on an attendee.
- mikestew 11y ago
  but you are also a weak human being for having succumbed to such disease in the first place. That's pretty much the antithesis of the AA philosophy, as well as the exact opposite of the "alcoholism is a disease" thinking. IOW, no one thinks you got cancer because you're a "weak human being". If there's any "ego death" involved, it's that you're not going to solve this in your own. Source: attended my share of AA meetings and even read the book.
  - FilterSweep 11y ago
    >Source: anecdotal data trashing those who you don't agree with isn't a fair justification to downvote. My point is proven in the _first_ and _third_ steps of the program, In the admission that you have a problem, and that you are helpless to solve the problem yourself, respectively. [0][1] What about your point? Your personal opinion of it? It is the admission that you are _helpless_ to your disease, and it is that very reason you don't have the self efficacy to overcome your issues yourself. An ego death involves, in albeit, sometimes flawed Jungian psychology a loss of identity, and A transformation of ones psyche in such a way that the Self is not perceived the same way after such transformation.[2] MY argument is that AA involves such ego death in that your admission over having a lack of self-efficacy in solving your own alcoholism is transformative, and you can't do it without the group or other external help, a la Step 3. I am a different person than you. I find my inability to solve problems for myself _weakness_. And just because you disagree, instead of positing an argument against my thoughts, you downvote my comment and claim you "read the book." This was the same exact fashion of discourse that had me leave AA in the first place. I handled "alcoholism" differently. My life is a legal nightmare but alcohol isn't a personal issue. In sum: People read things differently. But you don't see my flagging your comments because I disagree. [0] a real source: http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-1/ http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-1/ [1] http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-3/ http://www.alcoholic.org/research/aa-step-3/ [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death my source: sentenced to AA, went to a few meetings, found it damaging, and worked out an alternative treatment plan with court.

siliconc0w 11y ago

speeder 11y ago
I clearly have some kind of vice related to caffeine... In the hardest periods of my life I managed to guzzle 6 liters of coca-cola every day, plus eating lots of chocolate, and drinking lots of coffee and tea, of course this also ruined my overall health. I recently managed to "get clean", but I also stopped working, then I gave up, decided to buy 1 liter of red-bull style energy drink (not redbull itself because I can't afford it), drink it all in one go... then I could work, and I felt MUCH better... but I am also drinking lots of coca-cola and eating lots of chocolate again. I am seeing a psychiatrist, and seemly I have ADHD, and caffeine (and other stimulants) are a common way to self-medicate, and many ADHD sufferers, specially those not on legal meds, end having some strong vices (not only stopping at caffeine... cocaine, meth, and other strongly stimulant drugs abuse is also common). I started taking Ritalin (Adderall is illegal here) this week, for now only half a pill per day, because my psychiatrist is inexperienced and probably wants to be safe, let's see if with it (and an increased dosage later) I will be able to stop abusing caffeine, my kidneys (that had stones) and my liver (that is covered in fat to the point of failing to work properly) will thank me. (I am also going to a psychologist...)
- port6667 11y ago
  A liter of redbull subsitute? You sound like an addict just since you're talking quantities of caffeine. I hope you get past this. it's especially difficult because a lot of people don't realize caffene is a drug. Like watching a couple who drink three bottles of wine a day talk down on someone for drinking a liter of spirits as an alcoholic. They're one and the same.

deleted 11y ago

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mdip 11y ago

I don't know how effective Alcoholics Anonymous really is (not saying one way or the other), but having the accountability placed on you by friends is a helpful thing in many other tough situations in life. You can see it underlying many useful bits of advice ("Have a cofounder" always comes to mind -- someone to motivate you when you're unable to do so yourself, perhaps?) Addiction is no joke and anything that can provide relief or help to those who have found themselves caught up in it would be a huge thing. I always think back to a former friend of mine who battled with opiates. She lost her family and children -- well after she had completed a recovery program and been sober for a year. When she started with pills there was a very good reason -- several surgeries and a lot of pain management. When the pain was well and gone, she was left with a strong addiction. The woman she was before she started popping pills regularly and the woman she is now (completely sober) are different people. She told me that long term opiate addiction changes your brain chemistry in such a way that depression becomes a way of life -- I'm not sure if that's true, but it looks like it is with her. The worst part is that her marriage problems started well after she had cleaned up. Her husband, still a friend, said he couldn't stand the woman she'd become and confessed to me that he sometimes wished she'd never stopped. Before the judgement starts, he's a solid guy and I stand by his decision to fight for full custody of his children (you'd have to understand the whole story which I can't do justice to here). Her description of addiction still haunts me, though. She said "you need it like you need food after having not eaten for a week". She's done a week long fast (as have I). She'd know. That description is the only thing I've heard that adequately explains why addicts will put their children in harms way if it means getting their next fix (ever wonder why cigarette prices can go up 600% in two years and people still smoke?). I watched her become completely broke buying pills from scary people in scary places. I've heard from others some of the things she was willing to do to get enough pills to get her through a day; it's way beyond what you already couldn't imagine a suburban mother of 4 doing.

blazespin 11y ago
Alcoholism isn't so much about addiction as it is about binge drinking. Lots of people have a couple of drinks everyday and function quite well. It's the four manhattans in quick succession where things go awry.

billjings 11y ago

I have a short list of books that I recommend that have changed my worldview. First and foremost on that list is Bruce Alexander's _The Globalization Of Addiction_: http://www.amazon.com/The-Globalization-Addiction-Poverty-Spirit/dp/0199588716 http://www.amazon.com/The-Globalization-Addiction-Poverty-Sp... If you've got the bug, that book is not going to help you. It'll just tell you how screwed you are. If you don't have the bug, I think that book might help you understand the problem.

gigamuflon 11y ago
Sorry for going off-topic but I'd be interested seeing your reading list. Care to share it?
- billjings 11y ago
  It's not like I have it written down, but... * Plato's Republic. It's not meant to be read alone, I think. Read it with a like minded group of folks a book at a time. Our discussions of this work still inform how I think of all the ways people form groups together, in more or less ideal forms. * The Master And His Emissary. This book opened up the ancient worldview to me, and also gave me a strong rap on the head that "figuring things out" might not be the best way to navigate through life.

madaxe_again 11y ago

Ah, this rang so many bells. My ex of ten years ago drank huge amounts and was in utter denial about there even being a possibility of a problem. I used to have to go out and find her, usually asleep in an alley, or passed out in a bar's toilets - the worst occasion was when she threw a brick at me, as I had come to pry her away from a bar, and the recoil sent her tumbling into the Thames, in December - fished her out - and the next morning she was convinced I had pushed her in. Stabbed me with a stiletto heel a few months later, because I was trying to stop her hurling our furniture from a fifth story window. Ultimately we broke up as it's remarkably easy to bamboozle a drunk into admitting that yes, they have cheated on you dozens of times with dozens of men. This woman is a high court judge now. As far as I can tell, most barristers and judges are full blown alcoholics. For some reason I loved her - probably in the same way as I love my three legged cat - broken, piteous things, both. I suppose the point of where I'm going is that the only person who can rescue you is yourself. I tried for far too long for both of our sakes.

hammock 11y ago
That story would make a brilliant song.
dylanz 11y ago
Man, what a chapter of your life. I've had something similar, and it's amazing to what extreme trials and tribulations you'll go through with someone during a relationship. I like to think we learn a lot from these experiences, so maybe the three legged cats are there for a reason.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  It was heartbreaking - both because she betrayed me, but moreso because I realised that I was no small part of what was making her worse - she was dashing herself to pieces between the guilt she felt over her trespasses and the righteous indignation she felt at me trying to help her... I've not spoken with her in a decade, I hope she's at least found a way of living with her demons - but as I said, drinking is a huge part of the legal professional culture, so as long as she's inured in that world, I don't know what hope there is. Either way, it's her life. I guess the main thing I learned is that kindness can kill, be careful how you apply it.

aaron695 11y ago

This article to me is about depression not alcohol addiction as the author points out - > The absence of alcohol revealed that my “dark soul” was the manifestation of a decades-long depression. Booze had masked its diagnosis while also egging it on. They to me are more talking about binge drinking. I'm not sure an addict can just go to one AA meeting and stop. Sure it's possible, but to me they didn't sound like an addict, more self destructive.