4 ms·

Sigh, why should amazon do anything wrt taxes except minimize costs to their customers, maximize profits, and be legal? What they are doing is legal. Their co

by ggrot 17y ago

Sigh, why should amazon do anything wrt taxes except minimize costs to their customers, maximize profits, and be legal? What they are doing is legal. Their competition is doing the same thing. Why do reporters continue to blast big companies for "not paying taxes" instead of blasting the government for not requiring that the companies do?

nixme 17y ago
Sadly, this isn't even your average reporter. The author, Randall Stross, is a Professor of Business at San Jose State. What I don't get is why he's angry at Amazon. Sales tax is levied against consumption on a buyer. It's just that states can force sellers in their own jurisdiction to collect it at the point of sale. For purchases made out-of-state, states already have a mechanism for collection: use tax. I find it a bit disingenuous that he doesn't even mention this. Why force the burden on companies when it's a tax against people that they're not paying. Shouldn't he be angry at all the shoppers who aren't helping "avert layoffs of schoolteachers and firefighters and, yes, professors at state universities" by not filing their use taxes?
- gojomo 17y ago
  Shouldn't he be angry at all the shoppers... He might as well be angry at rainclouds. Tax policy is often designed to allocate tax burdens where they are easy to measure and enforce, rather than where they 'theoretically' should be triggered. Requiring millions of shoppers to record and pay their 'Use Taxes' would be an onerous requirement; requiring merchants to collect 'Sales Taxes' is relatively easy and indeed already traditionally done, even by Amazon. So it makes perfect sense to focus on bringing cross-state retailing into the sales tax regime, rather than scolding shoppers about use taxes.
  - nixme 17y ago
    Of course it is. If governments didn't force employers to withhold income, I doubt income tax revenue would be nearly the same. And paying use tax is pretty much a joke. My point is that he's using vitriolic language to accuse Amazon unfairly (who are abiding by the current commerce laws) when the same could be said about the shoppers (who are not). Attacking either won't lead to an acceptable solution. I don't think we should interfere in interstate commerce at a federal level. Rather the states that care will need to form a solution for all out-of-state commerce taxes, something that's happening anyways.
- nfnaaron 17y ago
  "For purchases made out-of-state, states already have a mechanism for collection: use tax. I find it a bit disingenuous that he doesn't even mention this." Mention: "In California, the State Board of Equalization estimates annual tax revenue losses of $1.085 billion from unpaid 'use taxes,' which are supposed to be paid for out-of-state purchases." But you're right, he spends very little text on this idea.
boucher 17y ago
Why shouldn't they write about big companies, and why can't they do both? Without taking sides, you can't place the blame squarely on anyone here. Lawmakers make mistakes and corporations choose to exploit those mistakes. Lawmakers obviously need to take corrective action when they identify problems, but these things take time. There's a difference between what is legal and what is ethical. Surely if there were some loophole that allowed corporations to murder their competitors they wouldn't do so. Corporations, like people, choose ethical behavior over legal behavior all the time. Not only is it reasonable for editorialists to call out those companies who make decisions that could be considered unethical, it is exactly what the press is supposed to do.
- ggrot 17y ago
  Choosing not to pay someone money that they aren't even asking for isn't really the cut-and-dry "unethical" that murder is.
gojomo 17y ago
Until the last two paragraphs, I didn't read this as an argument that Amazon should voluntarily pay more -- rather that the loopholes allowing Amazon (and their competitors) to do this should be closed. That's the stronger case. Still, I think it's legitimate for Stross to call out Amazon for special attention, and leadership, given their size and emblematic association with cross-state e-commerce. Amazon gets the largest advantage from the current loopholes; if and when they relent in their opposition, the issue can be resolved in a way that treats all businesses equally. So despite the ostensible call at the end for Amazon to unilaterally start collecting sales taxes, it's still really an argument for updated treatment of all such businesses.

by ggrot 17y ago

nixme 17y ago

Sadly, this isn't even your average reporter. The author, Randall Stross, is a Professor of Business at San Jose State. What I don't get is why he's angry at Amazon. Sales tax is levied against consumption on a buyer. It's just that states can force sellers in their own jurisdiction to collect it at the point of sale. For purchases made out-of-state, states already have a mechanism for collection: use tax. I find it a bit disingenuous that he doesn't even mention this. Why force the burden on companies when it's a tax against people that they're not paying. Shouldn't he be angry at all the shoppers who aren't helping "avert layoffs of schoolteachers and firefighters and, yes, professors at state universities" by not filing their use taxes?

gojomo 17y ago
Shouldn't he be angry at all the shoppers... He might as well be angry at rainclouds. Tax policy is often designed to allocate tax burdens where they are easy to measure and enforce, rather than where they 'theoretically' should be triggered. Requiring millions of shoppers to record and pay their 'Use Taxes' would be an onerous requirement; requiring merchants to collect 'Sales Taxes' is relatively easy and indeed already traditionally done, even by Amazon. So it makes perfect sense to focus on bringing cross-state retailing into the sales tax regime, rather than scolding shoppers about use taxes.
- nixme 17y ago
  Of course it is. If governments didn't force employers to withhold income, I doubt income tax revenue would be nearly the same. And paying use tax is pretty much a joke. My point is that he's using vitriolic language to accuse Amazon unfairly (who are abiding by the current commerce laws) when the same could be said about the shoppers (who are not). Attacking either won't lead to an acceptable solution. I don't think we should interfere in interstate commerce at a federal level. Rather the states that care will need to form a solution for all out-of-state commerce taxes, something that's happening anyways.
nfnaaron 17y ago
"For purchases made out-of-state, states already have a mechanism for collection: use tax. I find it a bit disingenuous that he doesn't even mention this." Mention: "In California, the State Board of Equalization estimates annual tax revenue losses of $1.085 billion from unpaid 'use taxes,' which are supposed to be paid for out-of-state purchases." But you're right, he spends very little text on this idea.

boucher 17y ago

Why shouldn't they write about big companies, and why can't they do both? Without taking sides, you can't place the blame squarely on anyone here. Lawmakers make mistakes and corporations choose to exploit those mistakes. Lawmakers obviously need to take corrective action when they identify problems, but these things take time. There's a difference between what is legal and what is ethical. Surely if there were some loophole that allowed corporations to murder their competitors they wouldn't do so. Corporations, like people, choose ethical behavior over legal behavior all the time. Not only is it reasonable for editorialists to call out those companies who make decisions that could be considered unethical, it is exactly what the press is supposed to do.

ggrot 17y ago
Choosing not to pay someone money that they aren't even asking for isn't really the cut-and-dry "unethical" that murder is.

gojomo 17y ago

Until the last two paragraphs, I didn't read this as an argument that Amazon should voluntarily pay more -- rather that the loopholes allowing Amazon (and their competitors) to do this should be closed. That's the stronger case. Still, I think it's legitimate for Stross to call out Amazon for special attention, and leadership, given their size and emblematic association with cross-state e-commerce. Amazon gets the largest advantage from the current loopholes; if and when they relent in their opposition, the issue can be resolved in a way that treats all businesses equally. So despite the ostensible call at the end for Amazon to unilaterally start collecting sales taxes, it's still really an argument for updated treatment of all such businesses.