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"The only one that’s sitting idle and not earmarked for another carrier is a Turkmenistan Airlines plane in temporary storage" I don't get it. Why would you par

by biggio 11y ago

"The only one that’s sitting idle and not earmarked for another carrier is a Turkmenistan Airlines plane in temporary storage" I don't get it. Why would you park an airplane idle?

sandworm101 11y ago
Because you don't have the money on hand to return it to flight (ie a part needs replacement). Or it is being held by some creditor and its storage should be called a seizure. There are lots of very expensive parked planes. Ever watch the mythbusters? All the stunts they do with jet engines are with a group of parked 747s. The engines have to be runup every so often to maintain flight readiness.
lnanek2 11y ago
Idle just means it isn't being used for anything at the moment in this case. They aren't referring to keeping the engine running while not moving.
smackfu 11y ago
It might make sense for a small airline to order a spare plane, just in case it's needed at some point. Especially if that plane model matches their flight profile really well, but also had a small production run so it would be difficult to lease a replacement. And if Boing really wants to get sales of the plane to make it look like a success, there might be a sweet price for that extra plane. And since plane age is measured in takeoff/landing cycles, a plane that is sitting in storage isn't really aging.
- notahacker 11y ago
  It's not strictly true that aircraft age is measured in takeoff and landing cycles and YoY depreciation is pretty huge for new aircraft even holding condition constant, but I'd agree that it might make commercial sense to keep a >10 year old 717 on standby. More likely to be short term fluctuations in demand or a short term airworthiness issue than any intent to have a "spare" aircraft though.
- phillc73 11y ago
  Aeroplane age is generally measured in total hours flown. Turbine engine life is measure in a combination of cycles and operating hours. A piston engine aeroplane has nothing measured in takeoff/landing cycles, although it is good practice to record this information on the Maintenance Release.
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    Take/off landing cycles affect jets more because they fly at higher altitudes, and you get the pressurization/depressurization fatigue stress cycles.
  - engi_nerd 11y ago
    There's no one measure for aircraft age. Flight hours, takeoff/landing cycles, and pressurization cycles are all measures that tell you different things. The program I work on tracks flight hours, engine operating hours, and takeoffs/landings.
    - hga 11y ago
      Many of us might remember the miraculous Aloha Airlines Flight 243, a 737 bought new by the airline in 1969, which in 1988 after 35,496 flight hours, but over 89,680 takeoff and landing cycles, lost 1/3 of its top fuselage and one flight attendant (it did a lot of short flights between the islands see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243). Per the Conclusion of the Wikipedia article: Under current FAA regulations for the Boeing 737 (line number 291 and prior) established in the 2010s, this airframe would have had to be permanently withdrawn from service after 34,000 flight cycles or 34,000 hours, whichever came first (for production number 292 and higher, it was increased to 75,000 flight cycles and 100,000 hours). The nearly 90,000 flight cycles exceeded the design limit of the 737-100/200 under either construction model.
      - engi_nerd 11y ago
        Yes, this was the example in my mind, thank you for posting about it. Flight hours weren't informative enough in the case of this aircraft because it spent its time making short hops involving lots of pressurization cycles.
notahacker 11y ago
Generally because aircraft are extremely expensive to operate and it makes no commercial sense to run them if none of the routes available to your airline can be operated at a profit during a particular time period. (There is a charter and short term lease market, if someone else has a route they can run that aircraft on over that period, but it's probably not much of one for a 717 in Turkmenistan Airlines livery) Aircraft also have periodic maintenance checks, some of which require the aircraft to be on the ground for an extended period of time. Same applies if the aircraft is having damage repaired. These may also show up as in temporary storage in Ascend's database (source: I used to sell it)

by biggio 11y ago

"The only one that’s sitting idle and not earmarked for another carrier is a Turkmenistan Airlines plane in temporary storage" I don't get it. Why would you park an airplane idle?

sandworm101 11y ago

Because you don't have the money on hand to return it to flight (ie a part needs replacement). Or it is being held by some creditor and its storage should be called a seizure. There are lots of very expensive parked planes. Ever watch the mythbusters? All the stunts they do with jet engines are with a group of parked 747s. The engines have to be runup every so often to maintain flight readiness.

lnanek2 11y ago

Idle just means it isn't being used for anything at the moment in this case. They aren't referring to keeping the engine running while not moving.

smackfu 11y ago

It might make sense for a small airline to order a spare plane, just in case it's needed at some point. Especially if that plane model matches their flight profile really well, but also had a small production run so it would be difficult to lease a replacement. And if Boing really wants to get sales of the plane to make it look like a success, there might be a sweet price for that extra plane. And since plane age is measured in takeoff/landing cycles, a plane that is sitting in storage isn't really aging.

notahacker 11y ago
It's not strictly true that aircraft age is measured in takeoff and landing cycles and YoY depreciation is pretty huge for new aircraft even holding condition constant, but I'd agree that it might make commercial sense to keep a >10 year old 717 on standby. More likely to be short term fluctuations in demand or a short term airworthiness issue than any intent to have a "spare" aircraft though.
phillc73 11y ago
Aeroplane age is generally measured in total hours flown. Turbine engine life is measure in a combination of cycles and operating hours. A piston engine aeroplane has nothing measured in takeoff/landing cycles, although it is good practice to record this information on the Maintenance Release.
- WalterBright 11y ago
  Take/off landing cycles affect jets more because they fly at higher altitudes, and you get the pressurization/depressurization fatigue stress cycles.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  There's no one measure for aircraft age. Flight hours, takeoff/landing cycles, and pressurization cycles are all measures that tell you different things. The program I work on tracks flight hours, engine operating hours, and takeoffs/landings.
  - hga 11y ago
    Many of us might remember the miraculous Aloha Airlines Flight 243, a 737 bought new by the airline in 1969, which in 1988 after 35,496 flight hours, but over 89,680 takeoff and landing cycles, lost 1/3 of its top fuselage and one flight attendant (it did a lot of short flights between the islands see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243). Per the Conclusion of the Wikipedia article: Under current FAA regulations for the Boeing 737 (line number 291 and prior) established in the 2010s, this airframe would have had to be permanently withdrawn from service after 34,000 flight cycles or 34,000 hours, whichever came first (for production number 292 and higher, it was increased to 75,000 flight cycles and 100,000 hours). The nearly 90,000 flight cycles exceeded the design limit of the 737-100/200 under either construction model.
    - engi_nerd 11y ago
      Yes, this was the example in my mind, thank you for posting about it. Flight hours weren't informative enough in the case of this aircraft because it spent its time making short hops involving lots of pressurization cycles.

notahacker 11y ago

Generally because aircraft are extremely expensive to operate and it makes no commercial sense to run them if none of the routes available to your airline can be operated at a profit during a particular time period. (There is a charter and short term lease market, if someone else has a route they can run that aircraft on over that period, but it's probably not much of one for a 717 in Turkmenistan Airlines livery) Aircraft also have periodic maintenance checks, some of which require the aircraft to be on the ground for an extended period of time. Same applies if the aircraft is having damage repaired. These may also show up as in temporary storage in Ascend's database (source: I used to sell it)