7 ms·

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" pr

by nadams 11y ago

> Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) (All renewal at current license price) PHPStorm - $129 PyCharm - $99 ReSharper Ultimate - $600 (no renewal price) If I were to purchase that with their old license it would cost me $828, with the new plan I only pay $240. And those are just the tools I have an immediate need for (I do Python, PHP, and C# on an almost daily basis). $20/month for their full suite of tools? Count me in. When I first found their tools - I was like "ehhh I don't know - I'll stick with Eclipse/Netbeans etc". Eventually I tried IntelliJ, PHPStorm and PyCharm and they have been the best IDEs I've ever used. Trust me I'll advocate open source when I can - but after all the issues I've had with Eclipse and Netbeans I almost just totally switched to vi.

mikeash 11y ago
I'm glad it's better for you (really!). But they shouldn't present it as better for everyone when it's clearly not.
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  He is specifically refuting your argument that the new model isn't cheaper than the old model.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    And I'm accepting that but pointing out that it still applies to many.
    - rangitatanz 11y ago
      Yes you are but you are providing no concrete examples of that. I'm interested to hear your examples?
      - nadams 11y ago
        I have a feeling that the people posting here on HN that are against the subscription may only be a small percentage of their user base. Personally I don't upgrade - because I don't need to. But if given the subscription I probably would if the price was right. Take Office 365 - yeah you can pay $200+ for a full offline copy but you have to do that for every version (and the whole keeping track of your media). Or just pay $99/year and get a perpetual license + extras + online installer. I know there are a number of people who are like "open office does everything I need!" - and that's great but just wait until you need to work on a document with another person who is using office 20XX and open office doesn't support the subtle formatting in that version yet. I know of a large company that tried switching to open office - they couldn't do it because open office didn't format many documents correctly.
Oletros 11y ago
> Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) If you need that. The individual products are more expensive with the subscription plan if you buy a license starting 1/1/2016
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
In that example, you have someone working regularly enough in PHP, Python and .Net (Resharper) to appreciate the JetBrains tools. I'm sure it happens, but it doesn't seem to be the usual case to me. edit But looking at the pricing page ( https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ ), a pure C# dev could just get "ReSharper Ultimate" for £79 Per year, or "ReSharper" for £71 per year, which I think is not much different from the current price?
- epalmer 11y ago
  I code php, java, python regularly. My team of two code php and java regularly and a little python. We have a small resource starved team. May not be normal but it is for us.
  - matthoffman 11y ago
    All of those languages are already covered by IntelliJ Ultimate. So your net cost in this new scheme is roughly the same as before, except if you don't renew your IDE stops working.
balabaster 11y ago
Wait, what? The only product I use is Resharper... I was paying $119 an update before, now I'll be paying $240?!? Yeah, that's not a good deal for me. There's no amount of skewed math I can apply that makes $240 less than $119...
- bbatha 11y ago
  Resharper ultimate is $11.99 a month or $119 a year.
- cwyers 11y ago
  Here's the pricing policy: https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ The $20 is for all products, Resharper alone is $11.90 a month or $119 a year.
  - moe 11y ago
    So previously $119 would buy him infinite years. And now $119 buys him a single year. Sounds like a downgrade to me?
    - dkhenry 11y ago
      no $119 would buy him one year of updates, and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to. If he chose to update on a regular basis, then he would still need to pay $119 every year
      - balabaster 11y ago
        I'd read it that I would lose my "update" model and I'd have to go back to paying the full outright price again if I decided to skip an update.
      - moe 11y ago
        and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to Yes, that's what I mean by downgrade. This choice was taken away from him.
barrkel 11y ago
I switched from RubyMine to emacs and got a significant productivity boost. YMMV, but I don't think I'll ever use an IDE for a dynamic language again.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  PHPstorm was excellent when I, a Ruby developer (among other languages), had to adopt a PHP codebase. RubyMine was less impressive, especially with all the enhancements available for Pry and IRB. RubyMine couldn't find method declarations or infer types the way PHPstorm could. So, I stick with Vim for Ruby, but don't rule out IDEs entirely for other dynamic languages in a pinch.
PaulHoule 11y ago
Yeah, Eclipse has the Linux GUI curse. Linux users expect the GUI to be unusable so they split into the camps who (i) think Eclipse is the bee's knees or (ii) use vi. The difference between IntelliJ and Eclipse is like night and day -- Eclipse fans think the plug-in feature is great but install one too many plugins and your Eclipse will get sick with pluginitis.
- yarrel 11y ago
  Eclipse is has the cross-platform GUI curse. :-)
- newjersey 11y ago
  I am a complete newbie so my perspective is inherently flawed but I am wary of installing anything on a Debian machine that I can't just get using aptitude (sudo apt-get install foo). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it possible to create a Debian repository server at Jet Brains that I can add to my aptitude sources list and then install Intelli J and stuff from the conventional command line interface? Why does Jet Brains insist on doing things the Net beans way with opening a web browser and downloading a binary every time?
  - vetinari 11y ago
    It opens web browser in Debian? On Fedora, it just downloads a patch, applies it and restarts. The pet peeve of mine is, that it downloads a patch, restart, then it finds out it has updates for plugins too, downloads them and restarts again. It would be much nicer if Jetbrains had a yum repository for both IDE and plugins and would download delta rpms. Just like Google Chrome does.
    - newjersey 11y ago
      > It would be much nicer if Jetbrains had a yum repository for both IDE and plugins and would download delta rpms. Just like Google Chrome does. Yes, it'd be nice if we had repositories for yum and apt-get. Also, I understand that most of the time it just downloads a patch, and restarts but the first install is still a problem. It shouldn't be that way.
solidpy 11y ago
With the previous model you could just stop paying them and keep using your current version of the software. With the new model stop paying them and you are locked out. I want DRM-free IDEs!
orillian 11y ago
I agree, it is cheaper but there are some of us that simply have no way to force, convince or otherwise cajole our employers to adopt a service license model. I have designers on staff using old Adobe products due to this same problem. JetBrains isn't going to magically convince management to open their wallets for monthly fee's. If this goes through, I'm boned. Stuck trying to make shitty IDE's work like jetBrains products. Not a happy day.

by nadams 11y ago

mikeash 11y ago

I'm glad it's better for you (really!). But they shouldn't present it as better for everyone when it's clearly not.

enraged_camel 11y ago
He is specifically refuting your argument that the new model isn't cheaper than the old model.
- mikeash 11y ago
  And I'm accepting that but pointing out that it still applies to many.
  - rangitatanz 11y ago
    Yes you are but you are providing no concrete examples of that. I'm interested to hear your examples?
    - nadams 11y ago
      I have a feeling that the people posting here on HN that are against the subscription may only be a small percentage of their user base. Personally I don't upgrade - because I don't need to. But if given the subscription I probably would if the price was right. Take Office 365 - yeah you can pay $200+ for a full offline copy but you have to do that for every version (and the whole keeping track of your media). Or just pay $99/year and get a perpetual license + extras + online installer. I know there are a number of people who are like "open office does everything I need!" - and that's great but just wait until you need to work on a document with another person who is using office 20XX and open office doesn't support the subtle formatting in that version yet. I know of a large company that tried switching to open office - they couldn't do it because open office didn't format many documents correctly.

Oletros 11y ago

> Uh - their "everything" price is $20/month = $240/year (or $200 for the annual plan) If you need that. The individual products are more expensive with the subscription plan if you buy a license starting 1/1/2016

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago

In that example, you have someone working regularly enough in PHP, Python and .Net (Resharper) to appreciate the JetBrains tools. I'm sure it happens, but it doesn't seem to be the usual case to me. edit But looking at the pricing page ( https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ ), a pure C# dev could just get "ReSharper Ultimate" for £79 Per year, or "ReSharper" for £71 per year, which I think is not much different from the current price?

epalmer 11y ago
I code php, java, python regularly. My team of two code php and java regularly and a little python. We have a small resource starved team. May not be normal but it is for us.
- matthoffman 11y ago
  All of those languages are already covered by IntelliJ Ultimate. So your net cost in this new scheme is roughly the same as before, except if you don't renew your IDE stops working.

balabaster 11y ago

Wait, what? The only product I use is Resharper... I was paying $119 an update before, now I'll be paying $240?!? Yeah, that's not a good deal for me. There's no amount of skewed math I can apply that makes $240 less than $119...

bbatha 11y ago
Resharper ultimate is $11.99 a month or $119 a year.
cwyers 11y ago
Here's the pricing policy: https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ The $20 is for all products, Resharper alone is $11.90 a month or $119 a year.
- moe 11y ago
  So previously $119 would buy him infinite years. And now $119 buys him a single year. Sounds like a downgrade to me?
  - dkhenry 11y ago
    no $119 would buy him one year of updates, and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to. If he chose to update on a regular basis, then he would still need to pay $119 every year
    - balabaster 11y ago
      I'd read it that I would lose my "update" model and I'd have to go back to paying the full outright price again if I decided to skip an update.
    - moe 11y ago
      and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to Yes, that's what I mean by downgrade. This choice was taken away from him.

barrkel 11y ago

I switched from RubyMine to emacs and got a significant productivity boost. YMMV, but I don't think I'll ever use an IDE for a dynamic language again.

nitrogen 11y ago
PHPstorm was excellent when I, a Ruby developer (among other languages), had to adopt a PHP codebase. RubyMine was less impressive, especially with all the enhancements available for Pry and IRB. RubyMine couldn't find method declarations or infer types the way PHPstorm could. So, I stick with Vim for Ruby, but don't rule out IDEs entirely for other dynamic languages in a pinch.

PaulHoule 11y ago

Yeah, Eclipse has the Linux GUI curse. Linux users expect the GUI to be unusable so they split into the camps who (i) think Eclipse is the bee's knees or (ii) use vi. The difference between IntelliJ and Eclipse is like night and day -- Eclipse fans think the plug-in feature is great but install one too many plugins and your Eclipse will get sick with pluginitis.

yarrel 11y ago
Eclipse is has the cross-platform GUI curse. :-)
newjersey 11y ago
I am a complete newbie so my perspective is inherently flawed but I am wary of installing anything on a Debian machine that I can't just get using aptitude (sudo apt-get install foo). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it possible to create a Debian repository server at Jet Brains that I can add to my aptitude sources list and then install Intelli J and stuff from the conventional command line interface? Why does Jet Brains insist on doing things the Net beans way with opening a web browser and downloading a binary every time?
- vetinari 11y ago
  It opens web browser in Debian? On Fedora, it just downloads a patch, applies it and restarts. The pet peeve of mine is, that it downloads a patch, restart, then it finds out it has updates for plugins too, downloads them and restarts again. It would be much nicer if Jetbrains had a yum repository for both IDE and plugins and would download delta rpms. Just like Google Chrome does.
  - newjersey 11y ago
    > It would be much nicer if Jetbrains had a yum repository for both IDE and plugins and would download delta rpms. Just like Google Chrome does. Yes, it'd be nice if we had repositories for yum and apt-get. Also, I understand that most of the time it just downloads a patch, and restarts but the first install is still a problem. It shouldn't be that way.

solidpy 11y ago

With the previous model you could just stop paying them and keep using your current version of the software. With the new model stop paying them and you are locked out. I want DRM-free IDEs!

orillian 11y ago

I agree, it is cheaper but there are some of us that simply have no way to force, convince or otherwise cajole our employers to adopt a service license model. I have designers on staff using old Adobe products due to this same problem. JetBrains isn't going to magically convince management to open their wallets for monthly fee's. If this goes through, I'm boned. Stuck trying to make shitty IDE's work like jetBrains products. Not a happy day.