7 ms·

The thing is, building a billion dollar business doesn't require 1000x the work or entail 1000x the stress of building a million dollar one The key thing is, a

by gmac 11y ago

The thing is, building a billion dollar business doesn't require 1000x the work or entail 1000x the stress of building a million dollar one The key thing is, a billion dollars is nothing like 1000x better than a million. In fact, I suspect it's barely 1.1x better (and there's even some weak evidence from subjective wellbeing studies that it could be worse). The St Petersburg Paradox[1] is a fun application of this fact — the fact that when you already have a LOT of money, even a LOT more money is pretty well useless to you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_paradox

orblivion 11y ago
Do you really mean 1 million or, say, 10 million? I think there's a huge difference between these two. I haven't done the math, but I figure with the latter you could retire without thinking (much) about what you spend money on. From that point, yes a billion isn't much different.
- gmac 11y ago
  Hmm. I agree there could be a difference between 1 million and 10 million. To an approximation, 1 million is not having to worry about housing, while 10 million is not having to worry about work. But I'm not sure not having to worry about work would be good for everybody — me included. It could be good ... but I worry it could also leave one purposeless and adrift (I have some anecdotal evidence on this point). Apologies for not looking up the literature to corroborate this (or not), but I should get back to the day job.
  - avn2109 11y ago
    >> "...1 million is not having to worry about housing, while 10 million is not having to worry about work." These numbers are low by a factor of ~2 unless you want to live in flyover country/a cheap country other than America.
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      I live in Cambridge, MA and I can't see any way that $10MM isn't enough to never worry about work again. At a first approximation, that's $300-350K in income without much risk of principal drawdown. It's surely enough for $250K in income (plus an inflation "raise" each year) forever. If that's not enough to not worry about work, you might have lifestyle issues. $1MM won't buy you a "really nice house" here, though, so I agree with you on that point, but it is still enough to not worry about housing if you choose "sufficient, not luxurious" level of housing.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
        As a counterpoint from the "flyover country" viewpoint, I live in rural Minnesota about 40 miles outside Minneapolis. $1MM will buy you a very nice new construction 6,000+ sq ft house on about 20 or more acres of land with an outdoor pool most likely. And you're within commuting distance of major job markets. $10MM and you're living quite comfortably (probably spending weekends at your cabin on the lake) and certainly not needing to work, so maybe you spend your free time tending to your horses or alpacas.
    - rce 11y ago
      Pretty sure you could not work even in SF or NYC with $10M in the bank.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      I live in London, and ~$1.5m would be possible for me to retire with my current living costs that includes taking care of my son and the mortgage. $2m would be comfortable. To just not have to worry about housing, even if I were to buy a house again today, would only take about $600k for a pretty standard 3 bedroom house w/garden even in London...
  - GFischer 11y ago
    I read frequently that what was considered a "millionaire" the last century, inflation and cost of living adjusted would mean "someone with 7 millions or more in net worth" Edit: they're the famous HNWI ("High Net Worth Individuals") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual The famous "one percenters" are people with 8.4 million in net worth or more: "The 1 percent threshold for net worth in the Fed data was nearly $8.4 million" Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-t... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/the-1-percent-paint-a-more-nuanced-portrait-of-the-rich.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/the-1-percent-pai... From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7257696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7257696
- merpnderp 11y ago
  After buying a nice power boat for week long cruises, a nice turbo prop for quick private travel, and that summer cabin in Colorado, 10,000,000 doesn't go as far as you might think. Especially if you like to travel well.
  - ZeroFries 11y ago
    Then don't buy things with such poor value propositions? 4% interest on $10,000,000 is $400k per year. If you can't live off that I feel sorry for you.
  - ianstallings 11y ago
    Guess you'll have to suck it up and fly first class.
- majani 11y ago
  There was a redditor who explained the difference between various levels of wealth, from his real life experience dealing with rich people: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_insanely_wealthy_people_buy_that_ordinary/cnnmca8 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_i... There seems to be a pretty big difference between 10m and 1b.
ctolsen 11y ago
You don't build a billion dollar business to cash out and retire. You would likely end up investing in new businesses and continue from there. In that perspective, a billion is exactly a thousand times better than a million. Even more so, perhaps, because it enables you to never have to worry about losing your money and going broke, which you could easily do with a million or even ten.
brudgers 11y ago
The paradox shows that capping the pot at eight bucks and limiting the tosses to three won't make the payoff better for the player. The no limits game has more positive outcomes. That's a problem for small businesses, the individual owner usually has to keep playing because the smallness makes them integral to operations. Cashing out and walking away is rare, maybe they can negotiate some reasonable buy out over a few years...but targets insure that's not really a walking away right away. On the other hand, business makes it likely that the owner is replaceable and makes the opportunity to step into their operational roles attractive. "But why would I ever want to walk away from my business? It is my life's work." Why then would you make it small?

by gmac 11y ago

orblivion 11y ago

Do you really mean 1 million or, say, 10 million? I think there's a huge difference between these two. I haven't done the math, but I figure with the latter you could retire without thinking (much) about what you spend money on. From that point, yes a billion isn't much different.

gmac 11y ago
Hmm. I agree there could be a difference between 1 million and 10 million. To an approximation, 1 million is not having to worry about housing, while 10 million is not having to worry about work. But I'm not sure not having to worry about work would be good for everybody — me included. It could be good ... but I worry it could also leave one purposeless and adrift (I have some anecdotal evidence on this point). Apologies for not looking up the literature to corroborate this (or not), but I should get back to the day job.
- avn2109 11y ago
  >> "...1 million is not having to worry about housing, while 10 million is not having to worry about work." These numbers are low by a factor of ~2 unless you want to live in flyover country/a cheap country other than America.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    I live in Cambridge, MA and I can't see any way that $10MM isn't enough to never worry about work again. At a first approximation, that's $300-350K in income without much risk of principal drawdown. It's surely enough for $250K in income (plus an inflation "raise" each year) forever. If that's not enough to not worry about work, you might have lifestyle issues. $1MM won't buy you a "really nice house" here, though, so I agree with you on that point, but it is still enough to not worry about housing if you choose "sufficient, not luxurious" level of housing.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
      As a counterpoint from the "flyover country" viewpoint, I live in rural Minnesota about 40 miles outside Minneapolis. $1MM will buy you a very nice new construction 6,000+ sq ft house on about 20 or more acres of land with an outdoor pool most likely. And you're within commuting distance of major job markets. $10MM and you're living quite comfortably (probably spending weekends at your cabin on the lake) and certainly not needing to work, so maybe you spend your free time tending to your horses or alpacas.
  - rce 11y ago
    Pretty sure you could not work even in SF or NYC with $10M in the bank.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    I live in London, and ~$1.5m would be possible for me to retire with my current living costs that includes taking care of my son and the mortgage. $2m would be comfortable. To just not have to worry about housing, even if I were to buy a house again today, would only take about $600k for a pretty standard 3 bedroom house w/garden even in London...
- GFischer 11y ago
  I read frequently that what was considered a "millionaire" the last century, inflation and cost of living adjusted would mean "someone with 7 millions or more in net worth" Edit: they're the famous HNWI ("High Net Worth Individuals") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual The famous "one percenters" are people with 8.4 million in net worth or more: "The 1 percent threshold for net worth in the Fed data was nearly $8.4 million" Source: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-t... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/the-1-percent-paint-a-more-nuanced-portrait-of-the-rich.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/the-1-percent-pai... From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7257696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7257696
merpnderp 11y ago
After buying a nice power boat for week long cruises, a nice turbo prop for quick private travel, and that summer cabin in Colorado, 10,000,000 doesn't go as far as you might think. Especially if you like to travel well.
- ZeroFries 11y ago
  Then don't buy things with such poor value propositions? 4% interest on $10,000,000 is $400k per year. If you can't live off that I feel sorry for you.
- ianstallings 11y ago
  Guess you'll have to suck it up and fly first class.
majani 11y ago
There was a redditor who explained the difference between various levels of wealth, from his real life experience dealing with rich people: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_insanely_wealthy_people_buy_that_ordinary/cnnmca8 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_i... There seems to be a pretty big difference between 10m and 1b.

ctolsen 11y ago

You don't build a billion dollar business to cash out and retire. You would likely end up investing in new businesses and continue from there. In that perspective, a billion is exactly a thousand times better than a million. Even more so, perhaps, because it enables you to never have to worry about losing your money and going broke, which you could easily do with a million or even ten.

brudgers 11y ago

The paradox shows that capping the pot at eight bucks and limiting the tosses to three won't make the payoff better for the player. The no limits game has more positive outcomes. That's a problem for small businesses, the individual owner usually has to keep playing because the smallness makes them integral to operations. Cashing out and walking away is rare, maybe they can negotiate some reasonable buy out over a few years...but targets insure that's not really a walking away right away. On the other hand, business makes it likely that the owner is replaceable and makes the opportunity to step into their operational roles attractive. "But why would I ever want to walk away from my business? It is my life's work." Why then would you make it small?