4 ms·

Which part of Europe? A lot of cities in Italy (and most of Europe) were Roman encampments (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C

Which part of Europe? A lot of cities in Italy (and most of Europe) were Roman encampments (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra) and they have a very square, ordinary layout I have always found boring. I have always been fascinated by other cities when a road starts to curve or a square pops out of nowhere. Walking through London is much more interesting than it was in Milan.

darkmighty 11y ago
I've never been there, but I heard there's a lot of planning in medieval italian city layout. In particular Siena, which has detailed squares for trade, politics, full of simbolic features (e.g. the City Hall tower was built much higher than the church's to assure the government is perceived as superior). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena#/media/File:PiazzadelCampoSiena.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena#/media/File:PiazzadelCam... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena
6t6t6 11y ago
AFAIK, Romans built their cities with streets following the N-S and E-W axes (Cardus and Decumanus) but, after, no medieval city continued with this style. Specially, in walled cities, the streets were appearing in a chaotic way. My home city is Barcelona where, actually, a big part is designed as an orthogonal grid.... but it's still not the same. I think I would have enjoyed the game more if I knew how my cities were supposed to look like.
riffraff 11y ago
which cities in Italy/Europe you consider to have a very square, ordinary layout? Off the top of my head I cannot think of a single city with a square structure, or where castrum and decuman still exist[0]. [0] i.e. Manchester https://www.google.hu/maps/place/Manchester,+UK/@53.479099,-2.2449683,15.01z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x487a4d4c5226f5db:0xd9be143804fe6baa?hl=en https://www.google.hu/maps/place/Manchester,+UK/@53.479099,-... does not look square at all, even though the "-chester" part derives from "castrum" and there is something resembling a cross in part of it.
- yread 11y ago
  I'm not sure if it has anything to do with Romans, but look at La Valetta, Malta: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valletta,+Malta/@35.8990602,14.5119388,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x130e45281d8647c5:0x745ad38ee242c917 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valletta,+Malta/@35.899060...
  - masklinn 11y ago
    La Valetta is a planned fortified city built by Francisco Laparelli[0] for the Order of St John in the 16th century. Nothing to do with the romans, or with normal maltese city architecture (which is much more organic) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Laparelli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Laparelli
- VMG 11y ago
  I agree, it's the exception Mannheim comes to mind: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/49.4877/8.4640 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/49.4877/8.4640 Karlsruhe is listed as an example in the Book, although considerably less regular than most US cities I've been to: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62518#map=15/49.0064/8.4080 http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62518#map=15/49.0064/8...
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  Piacenza has the roman squared city center intact in layout[1], lots of other small towns as well, but the fact is the old town parts are likely too small to actually matter when you look at the whole city layout - hard to notice from just looking at the urban map! then you have places like Turin that were built with a ruler [2] https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Camillo+Benso+Cavour,+37,+29121+Piacenza+PC/@45.0535637,9.696712,17z/data=!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x4780dd5d846b46f9:0x51f69c98ad5dd080!2sVia+Borghetto,+29121+Piacenza+PC!3b1!3m1!1s0x4780dd5ee54fc553:0x64d649c17a854eba!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Camillo+Benso+Cavour,+3... https://www.google.it/maps/place/Turin,+Metropolitan+City+of+Turin/@45.0653871,7.6696611,14.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47886d0cc3ed5cdf:0x405e67d473c94e0 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Turin,+Metropolitan+City+of... edit: some more samples, with cardo/decumano marked when known naples https://www.google.it/maps/place/Naples,+Metropolitan+City+of+Naples/@40.8413926,14.247351,18.25z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x133b084f6a6c7e99:0x3df52cc13b78191d https://www.google.it/maps/place/Naples,+Metropolitan+City+o... parma (barely visible, linked plaza was the old forum) https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+Giuseppe+Garibaldi,+1,+43121+Parma+PR/@44.8014151,10.3284871,18.85z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47806ae658e227e1:0xd4ef6bcbe7faf4ea https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+Giuseppe+Garibaldi,+... verona https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Rosa,+7,+37121+Verona+VR/@45.4446212,10.9968018,17.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x477f5f4958041e89:0x9f4341065220e9ac https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Rosa,+7,+37121+Verona+V... firenze, you can even see the old walls https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+della+Repubblica,+10,+50123+Firenze/@43.7713588,11.2541992,17.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x132a54019458448f:0x346f9c6ac1205f60 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+della+Repubblica,+10...
rmc 11y ago
A dead straight road in Europe is either (i) really old and from the Romans or (ii) really new.
- gsnedders 11y ago
  Well, New Town in Edinburgh was laid out on a grid in the 1760s. There are a few exceptions. :)
  - lostlogin 11y ago
    They probably call that "really new".
    - gsnedders 11y ago
      Architecturally, I'd say "really new" is since ~1970 (i.e., post-Brutalism), "new" is since ~1918 (i.e., post-WW1). In terms of town planning, I'd probably call anything 20th century "really new", and "new" being anything from the Industrial Revolution onwards. Therefore, I'd claim New Town isn't new, yet alone really new.
ff_ 11y ago
Although Milan has a circular layout that gravitates around the Cathedral, and the streets - especially in the center of the city - sometimes start to curve randomly or a square pops out of nowhere, just like you described :) Maybe you where referring to Turin? (that has this exact square layout that makes me mad and lost sometimes - because nearby streets all seem the same)

darkmighty 11y ago

I've never been there, but I heard there's a lot of planning in medieval italian city layout. In particular Siena, which has detailed squares for trade, politics, full of simbolic features (e.g. the City Hall tower was built much higher than the church's to assure the government is perceived as superior). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena#/media/File:PiazzadelCampoSiena.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena#/media/File:PiazzadelCam... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siena

6t6t6 11y ago

AFAIK, Romans built their cities with streets following the N-S and E-W axes (Cardus and Decumanus) but, after, no medieval city continued with this style. Specially, in walled cities, the streets were appearing in a chaotic way. My home city is Barcelona where, actually, a big part is designed as an orthogonal grid.... but it's still not the same. I think I would have enjoyed the game more if I knew how my cities were supposed to look like.

riffraff 11y ago

which cities in Italy/Europe you consider to have a very square, ordinary layout? Off the top of my head I cannot think of a single city with a square structure, or where castrum and decuman still exist[0]. [0] i.e. Manchester https://www.google.hu/maps/place/Manchester,+UK/@53.479099,-2.2449683,15.01z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x487a4d4c5226f5db:0xd9be143804fe6baa?hl=en https://www.google.hu/maps/place/Manchester,+UK/@53.479099,-... does not look square at all, even though the "-chester" part derives from "castrum" and there is something resembling a cross in part of it.

yread 11y ago
I'm not sure if it has anything to do with Romans, but look at La Valetta, Malta: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valletta,+Malta/@35.8990602,14.5119388,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x130e45281d8647c5:0x745ad38ee242c917 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valletta,+Malta/@35.899060...
- masklinn 11y ago
  La Valetta is a planned fortified city built by Francisco Laparelli[0] for the Order of St John in the 16th century. Nothing to do with the romans, or with normal maltese city architecture (which is much more organic) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Laparelli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Laparelli
VMG 11y ago
I agree, it's the exception Mannheim comes to mind: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/49.4877/8.4640 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/49.4877/8.4640 Karlsruhe is listed as an example in the Book, although considerably less regular than most US cities I've been to: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62518#map=15/49.0064/8.4080 http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62518#map=15/49.0064/8...
LoSboccacc 11y ago
Piacenza has the roman squared city center intact in layout[1], lots of other small towns as well, but the fact is the old town parts are likely too small to actually matter when you look at the whole city layout - hard to notice from just looking at the urban map! then you have places like Turin that were built with a ruler [2] https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Camillo+Benso+Cavour,+37,+29121+Piacenza+PC/@45.0535637,9.696712,17z/data=!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x4780dd5d846b46f9:0x51f69c98ad5dd080!2sVia+Borghetto,+29121+Piacenza+PC!3b1!3m1!1s0x4780dd5ee54fc553:0x64d649c17a854eba!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Camillo+Benso+Cavour,+3... https://www.google.it/maps/place/Turin,+Metropolitan+City+of+Turin/@45.0653871,7.6696611,14.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47886d0cc3ed5cdf:0x405e67d473c94e0 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Turin,+Metropolitan+City+of... edit: some more samples, with cardo/decumano marked when known naples https://www.google.it/maps/place/Naples,+Metropolitan+City+of+Naples/@40.8413926,14.247351,18.25z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x133b084f6a6c7e99:0x3df52cc13b78191d https://www.google.it/maps/place/Naples,+Metropolitan+City+o... parma (barely visible, linked plaza was the old forum) https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+Giuseppe+Garibaldi,+1,+43121+Parma+PR/@44.8014151,10.3284871,18.85z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x47806ae658e227e1:0xd4ef6bcbe7faf4ea https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+Giuseppe+Garibaldi,+... verona https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Rosa,+7,+37121+Verona+VR/@45.4446212,10.9968018,17.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x477f5f4958041e89:0x9f4341065220e9ac https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Rosa,+7,+37121+Verona+V... firenze, you can even see the old walls https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+della+Repubblica,+10,+50123+Firenze/@43.7713588,11.2541992,17.75z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x132a54019458448f:0x346f9c6ac1205f60 https://www.google.it/maps/place/Piazza+della+Repubblica,+10...

rmc 11y ago

A dead straight road in Europe is either (i) really old and from the Romans or (ii) really new.

gsnedders 11y ago
Well, New Town in Edinburgh was laid out on a grid in the 1760s. There are a few exceptions. :)
- lostlogin 11y ago
  They probably call that "really new".
  - gsnedders 11y ago
    Architecturally, I'd say "really new" is since ~1970 (i.e., post-Brutalism), "new" is since ~1918 (i.e., post-WW1). In terms of town planning, I'd probably call anything 20th century "really new", and "new" being anything from the Industrial Revolution onwards. Therefore, I'd claim New Town isn't new, yet alone really new.

ff_ 11y ago

Although Milan has a circular layout that gravitates around the Cathedral, and the streets - especially in the center of the city - sometimes start to curve randomly or a square pops out of nowhere, just like you described :) Maybe you where referring to Turin? (that has this exact square layout that makes me mad and lost sometimes - because nearby streets all seem the same)