4 ms·

"I can switch to the $149/yr 'everything included` plan and get a couple tools I don't already have" I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the

by hoopism 11y ago

"I can switch to the $149/yr 'everything included` plan and get a couple tools I don't already have" I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the literally thousands of channels you receive... I'd prefer to pay for what I need... and keep it. And update when I feel I need to.

snuxoll 11y ago
Really? > I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the literally thousands of channels you receive... Why are you putting words in my mouth? I explicitly do not pay for cable because it is outrageously expensive and I watch a fraction of what I am forced to pay for. I already pay more for these tools I use than I would be paying under the new plan, and I've been looking at buying CLion too. This is a net savings for me, personally.
- hoopism 11y ago
  I think you are being a little naive about this. I am sure (much like the cable company does with "introductory" rates) that JetBrains was careful to set an initial price point that makes this a competitive offer. The problem (as better stated elsewhere) is that the relationship is changed going forward. If they decide to raise the rates you are now left with the decision to continue at a less advantageous rate or have no product at all. In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability. There may very well be no compelling reason to update... but it won't matter in this instance because you will pay no matter what. teacup50 did a better job describing this...
  - gorohoroh 11y ago
    I see this is turning into a conspiracy theory ) Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly. I'm sure different product teams here at JetBrains will adapt to the new model in a different way. My hope is that the change will contribute to a focus switch from a race to provide new features to ensuring better stability, performance and UX.
    - hoopism 11y ago
      "Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly." Should add this to the press release. Would make me feel lucky to be a customer...
    - teacup50 11y ago
      It doesn't take a conspiracy. Humans follow their incentives. Customers are incentivized to keep ponying up for a subscription, because the alternative is a costly transition to other tools. JetBrains, like any other business, is incentivized to maximize profits and minimize costs. Customers assign value to avoiding costly disruption. That means that JetBrains is incentivized to lower costs by reducing the amount of value they otherwise provide to customers. This is the very definition of "rent-seeking" behavior, and it's scummy.
  - snuxoll 11y ago
    > If they decide to raise the rates you are now left with the decision to continue at a less advantageous rate or have no product at all. I'm not left with any such decision, they have explicitly stated in their FAQ that the 'existing customer' rates will continue indefinitely as long as the subscription is maintained. Sure, this means if I cancel I lose my special pricing, I'm not blind, but I don't see it happening. > In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability. I don't assume any such thing. I do not renew my licenses every year solely for the purpose of getting major new releases, point versions of current releases are part of the S&M as well, and getting left without bugfixes or support is not an option.
cscharenberg 11y ago
That's an odd interpretation of snuxoll's meaning. Presumably he likes getting access to tools he can usefully use, not "thousands of channels" he doesn't care about. He gets more tools that benfit him for less than he is currently paying. So I'm going with the assumption snuxoll meant that and he's not saying "I'm impressed by shiny things".
- hoopism 11y ago
  You're right. Probably not fair response. But I reject the idea that getting more of something I don't want makes this any more palatable.

by hoopism 11y ago

snuxoll 11y ago

Really? > I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the literally thousands of channels you receive... Why are you putting words in my mouth? I explicitly do not pay for cable because it is outrageously expensive and I watch a fraction of what I am forced to pay for. I already pay more for these tools I use than I would be paying under the new plan, and I've been looking at buying CLion too. This is a net savings for me, personally.

hoopism 11y ago
I think you are being a little naive about this. I am sure (much like the cable company does with "introductory" rates) that JetBrains was careful to set an initial price point that makes this a competitive offer. The problem (as better stated elsewhere) is that the relationship is changed going forward. If they decide to raise the rates you are now left with the decision to continue at a less advantageous rate or have no product at all. In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability. There may very well be no compelling reason to update... but it won't matter in this instance because you will pay no matter what. teacup50 did a better job describing this...
- gorohoroh 11y ago
  I see this is turning into a conspiracy theory ) Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly. I'm sure different product teams here at JetBrains will adapt to the new model in a different way. My hope is that the change will contribute to a focus switch from a race to provide new features to ensuring better stability, performance and UX.
  - hoopism 11y ago
    "Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly." Should add this to the press release. Would make me feel lucky to be a customer...
  - teacup50 11y ago
    It doesn't take a conspiracy. Humans follow their incentives. Customers are incentivized to keep ponying up for a subscription, because the alternative is a costly transition to other tools. JetBrains, like any other business, is incentivized to maximize profits and minimize costs. Customers assign value to avoiding costly disruption. That means that JetBrains is incentivized to lower costs by reducing the amount of value they otherwise provide to customers. This is the very definition of "rent-seeking" behavior, and it's scummy.
- snuxoll 11y ago
  > If they decide to raise the rates you are now left with the decision to continue at a less advantageous rate or have no product at all. I'm not left with any such decision, they have explicitly stated in their FAQ that the 'existing customer' rates will continue indefinitely as long as the subscription is maintained. Sure, this means if I cancel I lose my special pricing, I'm not blind, but I don't see it happening. > In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability. I don't assume any such thing. I do not renew my licenses every year solely for the purpose of getting major new releases, point versions of current releases are part of the S&M as well, and getting left without bugfixes or support is not an option.

cscharenberg 11y ago

That's an odd interpretation of snuxoll's meaning. Presumably he likes getting access to tools he can usefully use, not "thousands of channels" he doesn't care about. He gets more tools that benfit him for less than he is currently paying. So I'm going with the assumption snuxoll meant that and he's not saying "I'm impressed by shiny things".

hoopism 11y ago
You're right. Probably not fair response. But I reject the idea that getting more of something I don't want makes this any more palatable.