4 ms·

Who do you consider should pay for the food and shelter of criminals? Their victims - society? IMO themselves, through labor, forced if necessary. If that's wha

Who do you consider should pay for the food and shelter of criminals? Their victims - society? IMO themselves, through labor, forced if necessary. If that's what you're talking about.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Society should pay. Society has a responsibility to treat everyone - even the lowest of the low - with basic dignity. Society has a responsibility to reintegrate and readjust those it has failed.
- ManFromUranus 11y ago
  People also have a responsibility to Society, they should not steal murder, or any number of other criminal actions. >Society has a responsibility to reintegrate and readjust those it has failed Where is the accountability in your world? If I pistol whip somebody in the face and take their wallet, then it sounds like (by your logic) that society has failed that person, rather than that person failed to abide by the shared social contract (to not engage in criminal behavior).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    Creating people who are willing to perform such actions would suggest society has failed, yes.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    >People also have a responsibility to Society, they should not steal murder, or any number of other criminal actions. How many are in prison for non-violent actions that harm none but themselves?
    - civilian 11y ago
      I like this point, but it doesn't really refute ManFromUranus' point. You're talking past him. When we create this nebulous idea of a patriarchal "society" that should guide us in all things, it is easy to blame all of one's shortcomings on society. "Hey, I didn't get into that college!" "Society has failed you, sorry." "Hey, I didn't win that track meet!" "Sorry, society will do it's best to not let you down in the future." I think that if you ever try to cash in on what society owes you, you will find yourself woefully disappointed.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Hasn't work been found to be rehabilitating? (perhaps not backbreaking slave labor, but stamping license plates doesn't seem cruel and unusual)
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Work that gives job skills helps because many criminals are caught in a cycle. Basic education would work as well, perhaps even better. The problem is that the work they done is used to replace standard jobs and to make a decent profit for those in the chain, which creates a perverse incentive where you now have those who wish for more prisoners as they will make more money. We already have a problem with overcriminalization of actions.
    - sliverstorm 11y ago
      That's kind of an unsolvable problem. There has to be some incentive for people to go through the trouble to use prisoner labor. If you take away that incentive there won't be any work for them, which seems like a loss if the ability to work for modest pay is good for them. In general you would hope a handful of employers who like using prisoner labor wouldn't have so much sway in the country as to single-handedly crank up the incarcerated population for their own gain.
- tajen 11y ago
  Correct. And society has the responsibility to educate everyone and give them enough of a chance, so that they have no reason to go haywire.
- necessity 11y ago
  If you want to pay it, go for it. Don't force others - specially their victims - to do so. I imagine, from your point of view, you don't live in a country with high criminality.

Who do you consider should pay for the food and shelter of criminals? Their victims - society? IMO themselves, through labor, forced if necessary. If that's what you're talking about.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

Society should pay. Society has a responsibility to treat everyone - even the lowest of the low - with basic dignity. Society has a responsibility to reintegrate and readjust those it has failed.

ManFromUranus 11y ago
People also have a responsibility to Society, they should not steal murder, or any number of other criminal actions. >Society has a responsibility to reintegrate and readjust those it has failed Where is the accountability in your world? If I pistol whip somebody in the face and take their wallet, then it sounds like (by your logic) that society has failed that person, rather than that person failed to abide by the shared social contract (to not engage in criminal behavior).
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Creating people who are willing to perform such actions would suggest society has failed, yes.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  >People also have a responsibility to Society, they should not steal murder, or any number of other criminal actions. How many are in prison for non-violent actions that harm none but themselves?
  - civilian 11y ago
    I like this point, but it doesn't really refute ManFromUranus' point. You're talking past him. When we create this nebulous idea of a patriarchal "society" that should guide us in all things, it is easy to blame all of one's shortcomings on society. "Hey, I didn't get into that college!" "Society has failed you, sorry." "Hey, I didn't win that track meet!" "Sorry, society will do it's best to not let you down in the future." I think that if you ever try to cash in on what society owes you, you will find yourself woefully disappointed.
sliverstorm 11y ago
Hasn't work been found to be rehabilitating? (perhaps not backbreaking slave labor, but stamping license plates doesn't seem cruel and unusual)
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Work that gives job skills helps because many criminals are caught in a cycle. Basic education would work as well, perhaps even better. The problem is that the work they done is used to replace standard jobs and to make a decent profit for those in the chain, which creates a perverse incentive where you now have those who wish for more prisoners as they will make more money. We already have a problem with overcriminalization of actions.
  - sliverstorm 11y ago
    That's kind of an unsolvable problem. There has to be some incentive for people to go through the trouble to use prisoner labor. If you take away that incentive there won't be any work for them, which seems like a loss if the ability to work for modest pay is good for them. In general you would hope a handful of employers who like using prisoner labor wouldn't have so much sway in the country as to single-handedly crank up the incarcerated population for their own gain.
tajen 11y ago
Correct. And society has the responsibility to educate everyone and give them enough of a chance, so that they have no reason to go haywire.
necessity 11y ago
If you want to pay it, go for it. Don't force others - specially their victims - to do so. I imagine, from your point of view, you don't live in a country with high criminality.