7 ms·

I hit 51 next month, and that's ... well. These decadal anniversaries seem to get more onerous each time. 20? No problem, it just means you're not a teenager a

by cstross 11y ago

I hit 51 next month, and that's ... well. These decadal anniversaries seem to get more onerous each time. 20? No problem, it just means you're not a teenager any more! 30? Okay, you're officially a grownup, but you can still party! 40 was pause for concern, but it isn't what it used to be, the threshold of middle age: that's 50. Oops ... Well, as Terry Pratchett observed, inside every old man there's an eight year old wondering what just happened. I don't feel emotionally middle-aged. But my knees creak in the morning, I've survived medical conditions that would have killed me if I'd lived a century earlier, I can remember events -- as an adult -- that happened 30 years ago, and I don't have the physical stamina, mental agility, or energy of a 30 year old any more. (Mind you, what they say about experience trumping youth and enthusiasm? It's not exactly true, but the experience factor makes up for a lot of the gradual cognitive decline that comes with age.) Like Jacques, I'm less inclined to put up with fools -- but I'm also less inclined to get worked up over things. And I'm probably unemployable these days. (15 consecutive years of self-employment will do that to anyone.) But the biggest thing I've noticed? What look like big opportunities, vanishing in the rear-view mirror of age. When you're 30 you can think in terms of going back to university or forming a new start-up. You've got time to plan a new career or nurture a business ahead of you. But by the time you've hit 50, the future is looking cloudy. You don't want to train for a new career to see you through the next 30 years because who the hell wants to be working to pay off student loans when they're 80? So you get locked into whatever track you set yourself running down twenty years earlier. Changing is hard because you have less of a future ahead of you to change for. If you're under 35, my advice would be to think about that. Do you really want to be locked into doing more or less what you're doing now when you're in your sixties? If not, now is the time to change. The later you leave it, the harder it will be.

greggman 11y ago
I'm in a similar place to the OP. I turn 50 in a week. I get told often I look in my 30s. The majority of my friends are in their 30s. Hung out for 6 months with 28yr olds forming a startup last year, they asked me to join them. With few exceptions I don't fit with people my age. What I find frustrating is the society at large won't let me ignore my age. You get categorized all the time. Some meetup or dating event is 30-45. Some form has age categories. Visas to visit countries have age limits (as in we let students in but you're clearly too old to be a student). Articles all the time tell you who you should be, behave, for your age. Others tell you if you're XX age you can't do that anymore. Whatever it is. Can't go back to school. Can't learn a new language. Can't join a start up. Bla bla bla. Sure, most people's first reaction is "ignore that" but it's oppressive. It's a viral meme that eats at your thoughts Big life decisions are also harder because you start to realize each choice cuts off others so which choice to make?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  They tell you that kind of stuff when you're younger too, that you're not X or Y because you're not old enough yet. One's just more inclined to ignore it out of sheer bull-headedness.
- NoCulturalFit 11y ago
  Man I don't look forward of being 50. It's a hard time getting a decent programming job at 30, imagine 50 :(
  - itbeho 11y ago
    50 this year. Never had a problem finding good paying work.
  - aagha 11y ago
    Be very good at what you do and then age won't matter. - 40 year old
elorant 11y ago
On the contrary, I’m on my early forties and my physical condition is way better than it was twenty years ago. I exercise a lot, eat much healthier food because now I know whilst on my twenties I’d eat any crap that came my way, I have a steady sleeping pattern trying to wake up early each morning so I can make the most of the day and generally speaking I feel like I have at least another twenty energetic years ahead of me. As for tolerance the funny thing is that while younger I would confront head on anyone that I’d think was bullshitting me. Nowadays I just ignore them. I’ve learned to not give a fuck. The only thing I find harder as I grow up is to fall in love. It’s not that it doesn’t happen, it just doesn’t happen with the frequency and the easiness it did twenty years ago. But then again that might be a good thing, not to fall in love with every gorgeous woman that crosses your path.
- cstross 11y ago
  On the contrary, I’m on my early forties and my physical condition is way better than it was twenty years ago. It's a crap shoot. I got hit by metabolic syndrome -- extreme hypertension and type II diabetes. I exercise, I weigh less and am in better shape than I was 20 years ago, but I'm still on a cardiology professor's frequent-flyer list and gobbling meds by the double-handful. Meanwhile, my wife is a four year cancer survivor (another six months to the all-clear, we hope). The probability of running into a life-threatening or terminal medical condition approaches unity as we age towards the upper limit of human life expectancy (around 114 years, currently). By the time you hit your forties you probably know people who had an unlucky aggressive early-onset cancer; by the time you hit your fifties you can add heart attacks and strokes to that, and less-well-known problems as well. It's all downhill from here, and unfortunately it's not the kind of ride most people enjoy.
  - CmonDev 11y ago
    Isn't that hereditary? Isn't it possible to look at relatives and parents and guess own future?
    - barry-cotter 11y ago
porker 11y ago
> If you're under 35, my advice would be to think about that. Do you really want to be locked into doing more or less what you're doing now when you're in your sixties? If not, now is the time to change. The later you leave it, the harder it will be. Pause for thought indeed. Thank you. My immediate response though was "how can I predict jobs 20-30 years into the future, when I can't even predict my field in 5-10 years?". I could re-train, but most fields look like they will shrink.
- Joeri 11y ago
  The way I think you do an end run around that is to not think in terms of tools but in terms of skills. If your skill today is building CRUD forms, that's what you'll do in 30 years, only you'll do it in that decade's tools. I think you're then supposed to look at the supply and demand of skills, and try to gain a skillset that will be in high demand but with a limited supply. For example, building CRUD forms has probably reached peaked demand, and the influx of programmers in low wage markets is going to put downward pressure on wages for decades to come, so no matter how well you keep up with tools, you don't want to be in that market for the next few decades. On the other hand, if you specialise in data science and assorted algorithms, you're probably set for life, because demand for those skills will keep rising as software gets smarter, and the difficulty of gaining those skills will limit supply.
mistermann 11y ago
> But the biggest thing I've noticed? What look like big opportunities, vanishing in the rear-view mirror of age.....So you get locked into whatever track you set yourself running down twenty years earlier. Changing is hard because you have less of a future ahead of you to change for. Or even if you're not changing track, if you're developer ~20%++ of the track changes on you every year, can you maintain this pace when you're older, maybe with a family, and don't have the time or motivation to learn yet another way of doing <x> for the umpteenth time. For younger people I would recommend keeping a close eye on that situation over the long term and if possible have a plan B if you want to get off the treadmill.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  > Or even if you're not changing track, if you're developer ~20%++ of the track changes on you every year, can you maintain this pace when you're older, maybe with a family, and don't have the time or motivation to learn yet another way of doing <x> for the umpteenth time. For younger people I would recommend keeping a close eye on that situation over the long term and if possible have a plan B if you want to get off the treadmill. The plan B is always saving enough money to bail early on employment and retiring at 50-55. Switching careers is always going to be an earnings hit. Imo anyway.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    Agreed, and try not to lose all that money in the market.
    - fweespeech 11y ago
      Yeah, I just dump it into full market funds. If the whole market sinks, we are all fucked anyway.
  - JoshTriplett 11y ago
    > The plan B is always saving enough money to bail early on employment and retiring at 50-55. Or 35-40, which is not that hard in this field. Live like a college student, earn like a professional, and you'll be able to retire pretty quickly. Which doesn't mean you need to retire at that point, but it means you can. See https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement and http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... . The number of years you have to work before retiring depends entirely on what fraction of your income you save.
sp332 11y ago
It's old age and guile (or treachery!) that trump youth and enthusiasm :)
joeyspn 11y ago
Jack Ma has also 50++, and in this interview he gives interesting advice about how to manage your professional path during the years (20, 30, 40, 50, etc)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCr9-7It7fY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCr9-7It7fY
jxm262 11y ago
> If you're under 35, my advice would be to think about that. I'm taking this post to heart. Gives me alot to reflect on, thanks for sharing :) I'm lucky to find a field that I love (software), but it's time for me to focus on what I want to do "within" the field
shostack 11y ago
Charlie, would you describe a lot of the revelations here as coming to terms with the consequences of your collective life choices (for better or worse)?
- cstross 11y ago
  It sure looks that way.

by cstross 11y ago

greggman 11y ago

I'm in a similar place to the OP. I turn 50 in a week. I get told often I look in my 30s. The majority of my friends are in their 30s. Hung out for 6 months with 28yr olds forming a startup last year, they asked me to join them. With few exceptions I don't fit with people my age. What I find frustrating is the society at large won't let me ignore my age. You get categorized all the time. Some meetup or dating event is 30-45. Some form has age categories. Visas to visit countries have age limits (as in we let students in but you're clearly too old to be a student). Articles all the time tell you who you should be, behave, for your age. Others tell you if you're XX age you can't do that anymore. Whatever it is. Can't go back to school. Can't learn a new language. Can't join a start up. Bla bla bla. Sure, most people's first reaction is "ignore that" but it's oppressive. It's a viral meme that eats at your thoughts Big life decisions are also harder because you start to realize each choice cuts off others so which choice to make?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
vinceguidry 11y ago
They tell you that kind of stuff when you're younger too, that you're not X or Y because you're not old enough yet. One's just more inclined to ignore it out of sheer bull-headedness.
NoCulturalFit 11y ago
Man I don't look forward of being 50. It's a hard time getting a decent programming job at 30, imagine 50 :(
- itbeho 11y ago
  50 this year. Never had a problem finding good paying work.
- aagha 11y ago
  Be very good at what you do and then age won't matter. - 40 year old

elorant 11y ago

On the contrary, I’m on my early forties and my physical condition is way better than it was twenty years ago. I exercise a lot, eat much healthier food because now I know whilst on my twenties I’d eat any crap that came my way, I have a steady sleeping pattern trying to wake up early each morning so I can make the most of the day and generally speaking I feel like I have at least another twenty energetic years ahead of me. As for tolerance the funny thing is that while younger I would confront head on anyone that I’d think was bullshitting me. Nowadays I just ignore them. I’ve learned to not give a fuck. The only thing I find harder as I grow up is to fall in love. It’s not that it doesn’t happen, it just doesn’t happen with the frequency and the easiness it did twenty years ago. But then again that might be a good thing, not to fall in love with every gorgeous woman that crosses your path.

cstross 11y ago
On the contrary, I’m on my early forties and my physical condition is way better than it was twenty years ago. It's a crap shoot. I got hit by metabolic syndrome -- extreme hypertension and type II diabetes. I exercise, I weigh less and am in better shape than I was 20 years ago, but I'm still on a cardiology professor's frequent-flyer list and gobbling meds by the double-handful. Meanwhile, my wife is a four year cancer survivor (another six months to the all-clear, we hope). The probability of running into a life-threatening or terminal medical condition approaches unity as we age towards the upper limit of human life expectancy (around 114 years, currently). By the time you hit your forties you probably know people who had an unlucky aggressive early-onset cancer; by the time you hit your fifties you can add heart attacks and strokes to that, and less-well-known problems as well. It's all downhill from here, and unfortunately it's not the kind of ride most people enjoy.
- CmonDev 11y ago
  Isn't that hereditary? Isn't it possible to look at relatives and parents and guess own future?
  - barry-cotter 11y ago

porker 11y ago

> If you're under 35, my advice would be to think about that. Do you really want to be locked into doing more or less what you're doing now when you're in your sixties? If not, now is the time to change. The later you leave it, the harder it will be. Pause for thought indeed. Thank you. My immediate response though was "how can I predict jobs 20-30 years into the future, when I can't even predict my field in 5-10 years?". I could re-train, but most fields look like they will shrink.

Joeri 11y ago
The way I think you do an end run around that is to not think in terms of tools but in terms of skills. If your skill today is building CRUD forms, that's what you'll do in 30 years, only you'll do it in that decade's tools. I think you're then supposed to look at the supply and demand of skills, and try to gain a skillset that will be in high demand but with a limited supply. For example, building CRUD forms has probably reached peaked demand, and the influx of programmers in low wage markets is going to put downward pressure on wages for decades to come, so no matter how well you keep up with tools, you don't want to be in that market for the next few decades. On the other hand, if you specialise in data science and assorted algorithms, you're probably set for life, because demand for those skills will keep rising as software gets smarter, and the difficulty of gaining those skills will limit supply.

mistermann 11y ago

> But the biggest thing I've noticed? What look like big opportunities, vanishing in the rear-view mirror of age.....So you get locked into whatever track you set yourself running down twenty years earlier. Changing is hard because you have less of a future ahead of you to change for. Or even if you're not changing track, if you're developer ~20%++ of the track changes on you every year, can you maintain this pace when you're older, maybe with a family, and don't have the time or motivation to learn yet another way of doing <x> for the umpteenth time. For younger people I would recommend keeping a close eye on that situation over the long term and if possible have a plan B if you want to get off the treadmill.

fweespeech 11y ago
> Or even if you're not changing track, if you're developer ~20%++ of the track changes on you every year, can you maintain this pace when you're older, maybe with a family, and don't have the time or motivation to learn yet another way of doing <x> for the umpteenth time. For younger people I would recommend keeping a close eye on that situation over the long term and if possible have a plan B if you want to get off the treadmill. The plan B is always saving enough money to bail early on employment and retiring at 50-55. Switching careers is always going to be an earnings hit. Imo anyway.
- mistermann 11y ago
  Agreed, and try not to lose all that money in the market.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    Yeah, I just dump it into full market funds. If the whole market sinks, we are all fucked anyway.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  > The plan B is always saving enough money to bail early on employment and retiring at 50-55. Or 35-40, which is not that hard in this field. Live like a college student, earn like a professional, and you'll be able to retire pretty quickly. Which doesn't mean you need to retire at that point, but it means you can. See https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement and http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... . The number of years you have to work before retiring depends entirely on what fraction of your income you save.

sp332 11y ago

It's old age and guile (or treachery!) that trump youth and enthusiasm :)

joeyspn 11y ago

Jack Ma has also 50++, and in this interview he gives interesting advice about how to manage your professional path during the years (20, 30, 40, 50, etc)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCr9-7It7fY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCr9-7It7fY

jxm262 11y ago

> If you're under 35, my advice would be to think about that. I'm taking this post to heart. Gives me alot to reflect on, thanks for sharing :) I'm lucky to find a field that I love (software), but it's time for me to focus on what I want to do "within" the field

shostack 11y ago

Charlie, would you describe a lot of the revelations here as coming to terms with the consequences of your collective life choices (for better or worse)?

cstross 11y ago
It sure looks that way.