7 ms·

K2, a Potent Drug, Casts a Shadow Over an East Harlem Block

15 points by kareemm 11y ago

jMyles 11y ago
This reads like something from the 30's; just replace 'K2' and 'Acid' with 'Reefers' and 'laudanum' or something. This too shall pass.
- ablation 11y ago
  I can see what you're saying. But it doesn't make the reporting of it any less important, or at the very least informative. Nor does it take away the human tragedy even if it is only in microcosm.
- vfdfv 11y ago
  No, K2 is much more harmful than LSD and marijuana. And it never would have caught on if marijuana were legal.
  - robk 11y ago
    Why wouldn't it? Weed is all but legal here in the UK but Spice remains popular for the intense and different highs.
    - vfdfv 11y ago
      Just speculation, but at least in the US it is/was marketed as "legal weed". Nearly everyone that I knew trying it did so because their weed connect dried up. Is the weed situation much more lax in the UK than in the US?
      - user_0001 11y ago
        yes. For small personal amounts it is all but decriminalised in name. If you get caught, more often than not it is confiscated / thrown away. Same for growing for personal (no scales, no baggies, no tick list at the property, no "sorting a few mates out" - actually personal), a few plants and nothing will happen, at worst a few hours of community service
        Nursie 11y ago
        >> at worst a few hours of community service And a criminal record, and never being able to travel to the USA or various other countries again for the rest of your life. Nothing big... You have a funny idea of decriminalisation.
    - Nursie 11y ago
      >> Weed is all but legal here in the UK Weed is a class B drug, some people get tested for it some don't know where to get it. There is probably a very small market for synthetics in the UK, were weed legal, but I doubt it would amount to much. I say this as someone mildly involved in the UK RC scene who knows a few users. Most of them would switch to the real thing in a heartbeat were it legalised.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Cannabis has been reclassified from class C to class B. Other drugs in class B are: Amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, codeine, ketamine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), synthetic cannabinoids, synthetic cathinones (eg mephedrone, methoxetamine) Theoretical sentence for possession is Up to 5 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both And theoretical sentence for distribution is Up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both This specialist solicitor has some case reports of mostly large quantity: http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-cases/cannabis-was-grown-in-order-to-make-cannabis-oil-to-treat-a-skin-condition/ http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-cases/cannab... So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life sentence) but it's wrong to say that possession of small amounts of cannabis is ignored in England. EDIT: spice is popular because it wasn't being tested for in prisons, while cannabis was; and because it was legal.
      - drjesusphd 11y ago
        > So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life sentence) To be fair, the life sentences are due to the idiodic "Three Strikes" laws (I really wonder why those aren't considered double-jeopardy). I don't think you can go to prison for life for simple possession in any state otherwise.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
I didn't realise this was a problem in NYC too, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Here's a recent video from Vice on Spice use in the UK (Spice is just the brand name, it sounds like it's basically the same as K2, though the chemicals involved evolve over time so perhaps it's better to say they're in the same group of drugs): http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w Before I watched this I'd heard synthetic drugs were dangerous, what surprised me was how addictive they appeared to be (people in the video compared its addictiveness to heroin).
tracker1 11y ago
This only proves to serve as a point that you can't fight economics or force people to stay sober and clean. The situation would likely be better if they just legalized marijuana proper which would likely be a preference to most, much in the way that people prefer alcohol meant to be consumed instead of what you buy for cleaning wounds.
- robk 11y ago
  I don't follow this logic. K2 seems to be cheaper and a better high so why wouldn't you take it vs regular cannabis? Legalization wouldn't really change a thing.
  - fyolnish 11y ago
    It would make cannabis cheaper, and I don't think most people are saying k2 type drugs are better(I wouldn't know). Just that it's more addictive. On top of that these drugs only exist because of drug laws.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    Part of the reason cannabis is more expensive is the legal situation. And as for 'better'.... Is Thunderbird train 'better' than beer? To the guy on under the bridge, maybe I guess.
  - kristofferR 11y ago
    The only people I've heard that claims K2/other synthetic cannabis provides "a better high" are self-destructive stereotypical drug abusers (like in this article) who want to escape from life. Regular people often have horrible experiences with it, ranging from just really uncomfortable experiences to full psychotic episodes. It's not benign and relatively harmless like cannabis usually is.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    Cannabis is safer in the sense that there has been more research into its effects. Synthetic cannabis is pushed onto the market without the same level of testing, so they represent an unknown quantity, they could be safer but they could also be more dangerous, and as the chemicals involved are being altered to avoid being banned, you're rolling the dice every time you take them.
rwmj 11y ago
I was in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and it has a very obvious (to UK eyes) drug problem[1]. Try walking around at 6am and you'll see plenty of narcoleptic users glassy eyed or sleeping on the streets. I assumed it was heroin or prescription opiates, but maybe it was Spice/K2 instead? [1] And I should say I'm not talking about the legal drugs - alcohol, tobacco, cannabis - but there's a problem with at least one of those too.
- casion 11y ago
  Narcoleptic users? Do you mean "narcotic users", or is this some strange word pun?
  - rwmj 11y ago
    No I mean people in semi-sleeping states in the street, ie. narcolepsy.
benihana 11y ago
So maybe I'm out of the loop, but this article never really seems to explain why K2 is so bad and why it specifically is to blame for the issues in the article. I tried it about 8 years ago, and it was kind of like being stoned on pot but not nearly as fun. I cant imagine the same thing happening when people smoke pot, so I'm wondering why K2 is to blame here. But I'm not sure, cause there's little information in the article. Maybe I'm cynical but this feels like a drummed up press release for the woman mentioned in the article's campaign to ban this thing. It's almost like satire at this point. "Hey, this fake weed that showed up because real weed is illegal is causing all sorts of problems. I bet if we make it illegal, all of these problems will go away. And I'll get re-elected."
- Nursie 11y ago
  The hysteria over synthetic drugs in general is unwarranted, reactionary nonsense. That said - within the UK 'RC' scene, synthetic cannibinoids tend to be looked down on or avoided more than other unknown or novel compounds, because they can be unpleasant and (psychologically?) addictive. They also seem to have caused various kidney problems and stuff. The general consensus is that it would be good if weed were legalised so these things just went away. I say within the RC scene, I mean the online scene. Head shops are doing a roaring trade in the stuff.
  - fl3x1n 11y ago
    > The hysteria over synthetic drugs in general is unwarranted, reactionary nonsense. It sounds like you have some knowledge and evidence of their safety. Knowledge that neither I nor the rest of the world has. Why don't you share it then? From what I've read and seen of the medical issues associated with these untested substances the reactions seem entirely appropriate.
    - Nursie 11y ago
      I'm referring to things like the media scares over 'bath salts' and the tendency a couple of years ago to blame everything on them. Many/most of the extreme cases turned out to be nothing to do them. Oh and in the UK - mephedrone, which was banned purely because it became popular. Nobody did themselves much harm with it until after prohibition.
Kiro 11y ago
How is the high like? Seems interesting.
- Nursie 11y ago
  Anything between "a bit like weed" and "overwhelming, scary, nightmarish". People who use this stuff regularly who also hold down jobs tend to use the tiniest pinch. Most of what's on sale is so massively over-strength that it's extremely unpleasant if you're not very careful. Until you get used to it that is. The people in the article are used to it.
  - soylentcola 11y ago
    Yeah, I never tried the stuff but I had a few friends who did years ago. From their descriptions, it was like a much more potent, long-lasting, and somewhat less pleasant version of being high on cannabis. Basically, like being very high but not necessarily in a good way. They only smoked a small amount, hearing that it was quite potent, so nobody had a "bad trip" or anything but they all mentioned how such a thing would be easy. I've had anxiety attacks from smoking too much regular old cannabis in the past so I can imagine how a drug with similar (but stronger) effects could easily go from being super baked to the worst of the paranoia and anxiety you may have experienced with too much strong cannabis. edit: another issue is the range of potency. With normal "bud" cannabis, there's only so strong it's likely to be. When you're talking about some solution sprayed on plant material for smoking, the dosage can be much harder to determine without trying some first. I could probably take one puff of the world's strongest weed and there would be an upper limit to how stoned that could make me. With anything "laced" or concentrated and sprayed, you could be getting several times the desired dose with even a few puffs.
    - Nursie 11y ago
      All true. The cannibinoids themselves are far more potent than THC too, much higher binding affinities for the receptors, so while it's more or less impossible to actually overdose on THC, that's not the case with these. yeah I know, it's easily possible to have more than you're comfortable with...
poelzi 11y ago
Sounds like a plan to ensure CIA drug monopoly stays in place. Like nearly all drug related stories in mainstream: full of bullshit and missing informations... Graham Hancock put it nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw

15 points by kareemm 11y ago

This reads like something from the 30's; just replace 'K2' and 'Acid' with 'Reefers' and 'laudanum' or something. This too shall pass.

ablation 11y ago
I can see what you're saying. But it doesn't make the reporting of it any less important, or at the very least informative. Nor does it take away the human tragedy even if it is only in microcosm.
vfdfv 11y ago
No, K2 is much more harmful than LSD and marijuana. And it never would have caught on if marijuana were legal.
- robk 11y ago
  Why wouldn't it? Weed is all but legal here in the UK but Spice remains popular for the intense and different highs.
  - vfdfv 11y ago
    Just speculation, but at least in the US it is/was marketed as "legal weed". Nearly everyone that I knew trying it did so because their weed connect dried up. Is the weed situation much more lax in the UK than in the US?
    - user_0001 11y ago
      yes. For small personal amounts it is all but decriminalised in name. If you get caught, more often than not it is confiscated / thrown away. Same for growing for personal (no scales, no baggies, no tick list at the property, no "sorting a few mates out" - actually personal), a few plants and nothing will happen, at worst a few hours of community service
      - Nursie 11y ago
        >> at worst a few hours of community service And a criminal record, and never being able to travel to the USA or various other countries again for the rest of your life. Nothing big... You have a funny idea of decriminalisation.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    >> Weed is all but legal here in the UK Weed is a class B drug, some people get tested for it some don't know where to get it. There is probably a very small market for synthetics in the UK, were weed legal, but I doubt it would amount to much. I say this as someone mildly involved in the UK RC scene who knows a few users. Most of them would switch to the real thing in a heartbeat were it legalised.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Cannabis has been reclassified from class C to class B. Other drugs in class B are: Amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, codeine, ketamine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), synthetic cannabinoids, synthetic cathinones (eg mephedrone, methoxetamine) Theoretical sentence for possession is Up to 5 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both And theoretical sentence for distribution is Up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both This specialist solicitor has some case reports of mostly large quantity: http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-cases/cannabis-was-grown-in-order-to-make-cannabis-oil-to-treat-a-skin-condition/ http://www.mjreedsolicitors.co.uk/news/cannabis-cases/cannab... So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life sentence) but it's wrong to say that possession of small amounts of cannabis is ignored in England. EDIT: spice is popular because it wasn't being tested for in prisons, while cannabis was; and because it was legal.
    - drjesusphd 11y ago
      > So we're nothing like the US (where simple possession could get you a life sentence) To be fair, the life sentences are due to the idiodic "Three Strikes" laws (I really wonder why those aren't considered double-jeopardy). I don't think you can go to prison for life for simple possession in any state otherwise.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

I didn't realise this was a problem in NYC too, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Here's a recent video from Vice on Spice use in the UK (Spice is just the brand name, it sounds like it's basically the same as K2, though the chemicals involved evolve over time so perhaps it's better to say they're in the same group of drugs): http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w http://youtu.be/t6pmc7Tpx4w Before I watched this I'd heard synthetic drugs were dangerous, what surprised me was how addictive they appeared to be (people in the video compared its addictiveness to heroin).

tracker1 11y ago

This only proves to serve as a point that you can't fight economics or force people to stay sober and clean. The situation would likely be better if they just legalized marijuana proper which would likely be a preference to most, much in the way that people prefer alcohol meant to be consumed instead of what you buy for cleaning wounds.

robk 11y ago
I don't follow this logic. K2 seems to be cheaper and a better high so why wouldn't you take it vs regular cannabis? Legalization wouldn't really change a thing.
- fyolnish 11y ago
  It would make cannabis cheaper, and I don't think most people are saying k2 type drugs are better(I wouldn't know). Just that it's more addictive. On top of that these drugs only exist because of drug laws.
- Nursie 11y ago
  Part of the reason cannabis is more expensive is the legal situation. And as for 'better'.... Is Thunderbird train 'better' than beer? To the guy on under the bridge, maybe I guess.
- kristofferR 11y ago
  The only people I've heard that claims K2/other synthetic cannabis provides "a better high" are self-destructive stereotypical drug abusers (like in this article) who want to escape from life. Regular people often have horrible experiences with it, ranging from just really uncomfortable experiences to full psychotic episodes. It's not benign and relatively harmless like cannabis usually is.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Cannabis is safer in the sense that there has been more research into its effects. Synthetic cannabis is pushed onto the market without the same level of testing, so they represent an unknown quantity, they could be safer but they could also be more dangerous, and as the chemicals involved are being altered to avoid being banned, you're rolling the dice every time you take them.

rwmj 11y ago

I was in Seattle a couple of weeks ago, and it has a very obvious (to UK eyes) drug problem[1]. Try walking around at 6am and you'll see plenty of narcoleptic users glassy eyed or sleeping on the streets. I assumed it was heroin or prescription opiates, but maybe it was Spice/K2 instead? [1] And I should say I'm not talking about the legal drugs - alcohol, tobacco, cannabis - but there's a problem with at least one of those too.

casion 11y ago
Narcoleptic users? Do you mean "narcotic users", or is this some strange word pun?
- rwmj 11y ago
  No I mean people in semi-sleeping states in the street, ie. narcolepsy.

benihana 11y ago

So maybe I'm out of the loop, but this article never really seems to explain why K2 is so bad and why it specifically is to blame for the issues in the article. I tried it about 8 years ago, and it was kind of like being stoned on pot but not nearly as fun. I cant imagine the same thing happening when people smoke pot, so I'm wondering why K2 is to blame here. But I'm not sure, cause there's little information in the article. Maybe I'm cynical but this feels like a drummed up press release for the woman mentioned in the article's campaign to ban this thing. It's almost like satire at this point. "Hey, this fake weed that showed up because real weed is illegal is causing all sorts of problems. I bet if we make it illegal, all of these problems will go away. And I'll get re-elected."

Nursie 11y ago
The hysteria over synthetic drugs in general is unwarranted, reactionary nonsense. That said - within the UK 'RC' scene, synthetic cannibinoids tend to be looked down on or avoided more than other unknown or novel compounds, because they can be unpleasant and (psychologically?) addictive. They also seem to have caused various kidney problems and stuff. The general consensus is that it would be good if weed were legalised so these things just went away. I say within the RC scene, I mean the online scene. Head shops are doing a roaring trade in the stuff.
- fl3x1n 11y ago
  > The hysteria over synthetic drugs in general is unwarranted, reactionary nonsense. It sounds like you have some knowledge and evidence of their safety. Knowledge that neither I nor the rest of the world has. Why don't you share it then? From what I've read and seen of the medical issues associated with these untested substances the reactions seem entirely appropriate.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    I'm referring to things like the media scares over 'bath salts' and the tendency a couple of years ago to blame everything on them. Many/most of the extreme cases turned out to be nothing to do them. Oh and in the UK - mephedrone, which was banned purely because it became popular. Nobody did themselves much harm with it until after prohibition.

Kiro 11y ago

How is the high like? Seems interesting.

Nursie 11y ago
Anything between "a bit like weed" and "overwhelming, scary, nightmarish". People who use this stuff regularly who also hold down jobs tend to use the tiniest pinch. Most of what's on sale is so massively over-strength that it's extremely unpleasant if you're not very careful. Until you get used to it that is. The people in the article are used to it.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Yeah, I never tried the stuff but I had a few friends who did years ago. From their descriptions, it was like a much more potent, long-lasting, and somewhat less pleasant version of being high on cannabis. Basically, like being very high but not necessarily in a good way. They only smoked a small amount, hearing that it was quite potent, so nobody had a "bad trip" or anything but they all mentioned how such a thing would be easy. I've had anxiety attacks from smoking too much regular old cannabis in the past so I can imagine how a drug with similar (but stronger) effects could easily go from being super baked to the worst of the paranoia and anxiety you may have experienced with too much strong cannabis. edit: another issue is the range of potency. With normal "bud" cannabis, there's only so strong it's likely to be. When you're talking about some solution sprayed on plant material for smoking, the dosage can be much harder to determine without trying some first. I could probably take one puff of the world's strongest weed and there would be an upper limit to how stoned that could make me. With anything "laced" or concentrated and sprayed, you could be getting several times the desired dose with even a few puffs.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    All true. The cannibinoids themselves are far more potent than THC too, much higher binding affinities for the receptors, so while it's more or less impossible to actually overdose on THC, that's not the case with these. yeah I know, it's easily possible to have more than you're comfortable with...

poelzi 11y ago

Sounds like a plan to ensure CIA drug monopoly stays in place. Like nearly all drug related stories in mainstream: full of bullshit and missing informations... Graham Hancock put it nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw