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Security or theater: no electronics on international flights?
- rimantas 17y agoCan't wait till someone tries to get explosives on the plane weaved into clothes.
- pmorici 17y agoMythbusters did an episode where they made exploding pants didn't they? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2006_season)#Episode_53_.E2.80.93_.22Exploding_Pants.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2006_season)#Episo...
- NikkiA 17y agoAccording to the BBC report on this incident, we're there already... Techchrunch seems to think it was 'electronics' related, but the BBC is reporting that he had explosives sewn into the elastic band of his underwear. So if anything, TSA are likely to ban clothes on planes.
- adw 17y ago"Moulded around his body parts" (source: BBC One News at Ten). Start your sausage-sizzle jokes now, dudes.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- pmorici 17y agoIf true this is insane. Why not just sedate everyone and handcuff them to the seats because the way things are going that is the logical conclusion to this inanity.
- Zev 17y agoWhy not just sedate everyone... I'd be slightly more open to this policy if the TSA was going to start paying for in-flight alcohol. I don't necessarily want to use my laptop around alcohol in-flight. (Or soda, for that matter - though I usually get water bottles for the cap.)
- scorxn 17y agoUgh, I'd much prefer that to all the dehumanizing and paranoia that is present-day air travel. Knock me out and send me FedEx, please. Probably takes about as long to recover from a horse tranquilizer as it does from plain ol' jet lag.
- adatta02 17y agobeing passed out for a 20+ flight to Asia sounds good to me :)
- iamaleksey 17y agoTsst, don't say things like this. They can be reading HN.
- asciilifeform 17y agoPerhaps the first nut with an implanted (say, abdominal cavity) bomb will save us from this.
- fnid 17y agoAfter that, we'll have to send our entire bodies through the x-ray machine.
- asciilifeform 17y agoIt isn't difficult to create explosives with the same x-ray transparency as body fat. The detonator squib will be in a pen, a glasses frame, or some other everyday item which has not yet been forbidden.
- mixmax 17y agoIf this is a move from the TSA to counter attacks like the man who recently tried to set himself on fire on a plane the irony is that books burn much better than electronics.
- RiderOfGiraffes 17y agoCue the inevitable XKCD link: http://xkcd.com/651/ http://xkcd.com/651/
- tlrobinson 17y agoSecurity whack-a-mole. Box cutters used in 9/11... ban anything sharp Shoe bomber... make people take off shoes Liquid explosive plot... limit liquids and gels to 4oz containers Guy tries to explode bomb in his lap during the last hour of a flight... no things in your lap during the last hour. It's comical and tragic.
- nvn1 17y agoPerhaps I should embark on a start-up that sells strengthened chambers capable of withstanding explosives to replace traditional seating that the attendants lock you in before take-off. EDIT: Or redesign the seating layout to turn the cabin into some kind of panopticon where all passengers can watch out for any suspicious behaviour. They can have a voting system which detains a passenger if the number of concerned fellow passengers passes a threshold...
- prodigal_erik 17y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel I've never seen a coffin hotel in person, but it sounds much nicer than the cattle car I'm faced with this evening. I'm guessing they can't do it because we couldn't evacuate within the FAA's 90 second deadline. Hm, maybe make an escape pod out of it...
- dtf 17y agoI suppose we should count ourselves lucky this guy didn't blow himself up on a plane. http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/2833157/Bomb-in-anal-cavity-raises-new-airline-concern http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/2833157/Bomb-in-ana...
- physcab 17y agoNote: I do research in explosives detection With the exception of the last one, banning box cutters, requiring people to take off their shoes, and limiting explosives are actually quite reasonable for security. Current detection technologies can't really detect explosive substances, except for the X-ray machine, but the best it can do is tell you the density of the materials in question, not necessarily what type of explosive it is. So running your shoes through the machine makes sense, as enough dangerous solid explosive can be packed into the sole of a shoe. Liquid explosives are extremely unstable. The explosive power is probably not enough to blow up a plane, but it can definitely injure or kill many people or set fire to the plane. Plus, no machine exists to distinguish explosive liquids from non-explosive liquids at the scale that an airport requires. For the curious, I'll just briefly list some of the detection systems that are out on the market, and what their capabilities are: - Metal detector - X-ray machine - Densities of materials - Ion Mobility Scanner (eg. Puffers or Swipers) - Trace explosives detection, but easily confused by other nitro compounds such as hand cremes, fertilizer, and uh..jet fuel. - Millimeter Wave Scanner (eg. Whole Body Scanner) - Anomaly detection (eg. can penetrate clothing), but cannot identify explosives. - Terahertz Imaging - Can penetrate clothing and can identify materials, including explosives, but can be blocked by water and hasn't reached commercialization. - Other wavelength imaging - Our group uses UV light and can detect trace amounts of explosives, but does not penetrate clothing. It's only a surface technique.
- cstross 17y agoI'm hoping this is a temporary over-reaction, or over-stated, or both. However, I've got a trip to the USA in mid-February (coincidentally flying in from Schiphol) that is probably going to be cancelled if this is (as the more extreme rumours have it) a permanent ban on in-flight use of electronics during all stages of flights to the US. And I really don't think I'll be the only person cancelling discretionary visits. Given that the numbskull suicide bomber in question apparently tried to inject some sort of accelerant into the powder in his trousers using a syringe, I pity any diabetics trying to fly anywhere in the next few weeks ...
- NikkiA 17y agoI doubt there's any validity to this claim, just another TC bad reporting most likely. Banning electronics on flights would be the final nail in the coffin for air-travel, even just on international flights it would piss off so many corporate travellers that the airlines wouldn't cope with the losses - many large corps only accept 8hr+ flights for business trips because the employee(s) can work while in flight.
- Zev 17y agoIts valid: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html. Which is actually linked to in the article.
- imurray 17y agoThat link says nothing about electronics, the headline claim. The sources for banning electronics all seem to refer to Twitter, which may result from isolated incidents, or speculation.
- poutine 17y agoPersonal accounts on the new rules from flight crews and passengers: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4653414/ http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/re...
- c1sc0 17y agoI wish some of our politicians had the balls to stop this paranoid mess and say "No, we can't guarantee 100% safety, learn to live with it".
- kvs 17y agoIt's not politicians. It's people. And, it is people who are paranoid and irrational. Politicians just have to cater to the majority opinion to get anything done.
- axod 17y agoIt'd be nice and refreshing if the media, and governments spent as much time as possible educating people on the comparative risks. The chance of dying from terrorism is far far lower than most other causes of death. It's a rounding error. The other one that gets me is the painting by the media that pedophiles are going to snatch your child off the street, whilst the risk is miniscule, and most sexual abuse is by family members. It makes people afraid to live their lives. If newspapers actually ranked news by how much it actually matters, we'd have a massively different view of the world.
- jamesjyu 17y agoMedia outlets would label that as "boring." It's a sad state of affairs, but sensationalism sells.
- makecheck 17y agoI think someone needs to stand up in Congress with a table of the top 50 causes of death in the last 5 decades, coupled with the current spending to combat each of those. They should then debate until each of those investments is perfectly balanced. Transportation security would end up with about $4.50.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- tibbon 17y agoI flew yesterday and had an interesting encounter. I accidentally had a small set of lockpicks in my jacket pocket. I'm always VERY careful to completely empty my bag after I accidentally brought a knife into the security area once a few years ago in my camera bag (which they found of course, but didn't give me much trouble about. I always keep one in my camera bag for cutting tape, wires, tree branches in photo shoots, opening packages, etc)- however I didn't check my coat this time as I was rushed. Opps. Anyway, I took lockpicks through. Of course they noticed them in the x-ray machine. The guy was super nice about it. He was like, "What are these?" and I responded, "Lockpicks. I just have them for practice on stuff and learning, I didn't mean to travel with them. I'm sorry if they are something that is contraband from carrying on airplanes and I totally understand if you have to keep them." The guy looked a little puzzled. "Like you use to start or open a car?". Now honestly I've never tried picking a car. I've tried picking my motorcycle when the key fell out once, but never a car. I say, "I guess you could, but I've never tried it." I was worried that he thought I was a car thief or something. He then said, "Oh, well I've been having this trouble with my car ignition. Its really lose. I've always carried heavy keys and I think its broken. Do you know anything about fixing it?" He was intrigued and just was curious. Not accusatory at all. I was kinda shocked. He looked at them and said, "They don't look sharp or anything. They should be fine. We let people carry through small scissors which are more dangerous than these because if you break them in two they are two small knives if they are sharp" He scanned them through the x-ray once more, and handed them to me and was asking a few other questions about good locksmiths in the area to fix his car. I apologized again for the trouble, but he said and this is the important part: "Look, I used to work for a prison. The security here is a joke compared to real security at prisons. These wouldn't get through there, but we let all sorts of stuff through that would probably get someone killed in prison fights or would be instantly contraband there." I'd thought about this before, but the bluntness and understanding that he had behind this was a real shock to me. I'd never thought that the airports were secure- but compare them to an actual 'secure' environment like a prison and they seem wide open. It is truly unfortunate that the higher ups at the TSA don't promote this guy to the top and have the same understanding as him. You're not making a secure place with these practices- you're making placebo. If we wanted real security EVERYONE would probably need cavity searches and no one could take anything at all onboard. I'm glad we aren't trying for that obviously.
- tibbon 17y agoI'm also wondering if the TSA will allow airlines to start selling "clean" electronic devices for high prices- just like they did with water and other "fluids". No water through security- but you can buy it for a special price inside!
- icey 17y agoDoes anyone know if charters are exempt from TSA rules? What about private jets? I just wonder when it starts being profitable to start trying to find the TSA loopholes.
- ratsbane 17y agoCharter flights fall under FAA Part 135 rules; scheduled flights are Part 121. With charter flights you don't have to put up with all of the passenger screening stuff. It's also surprisingly affordable if you are traveling with a group, e.g. a Gulfstream IV carries around 14 passengers and rents for about $6k/hour. A King Air 200 carries 6 or 7 about half as fast for around $1.5k/hour.
- icey 17y agoThat's pretty interesting... Tony Hsieh made a funny joke about starting a "Zappos Airlines" at Startup School this year. Airlines are already notorious for terrible customer service, and if you add on all the ridiculousness of these new TSA rules (if true) then maybe there's some room for a little disruption. Of course, this assumes there are loopholes that can be taken advantage of. I know I'll be flying a lot less if I can't use electronics internationally; and I'd certainly be willing to pay more money to make those flights if I could continue to use my gear when traveling.
- rbanffy 17y agoProhibiting media players and computers turns selling on-board movies into a great way to make money.
- ghshephard 17y agoYou all realize that this just means the TSA reads XKCD? http://xkcd.org/651/ http://xkcd.org/651/
- erso 17y agoAnyone reading the TSA blog already knows they do: http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/10/response-to-bag-check-cartoon.html http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/10/response-to-bag-check-cartoo...
- ojbyrne 17y agoNote that if you correctly parse xenijardin's tweet (and her boingboing post here: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/26/yo-dawg-i-heard-you.html http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/26/yo-dawg-i-heard-you.htm...), then it becomes clear that you're not allowed to use electronics during the last hour of a flight, not the entire flight. Let's play telephone...
- JimmyL 17y agoBusinesses that fly people internationally will freak out, as many have said - although I would think that it would be because of people having to check their laptops, as opposed to their inability to be productive while flying. When I used to fly for business with a laptop, the company assumed I wouldn't get much work done on the flight - but one of the cardinal rules was that your laptop was never out of your physical sight when traveling. We encrypted everything, but you always had to bring it carry-on, stash it under your seat, and carry it with you when you went to the washroom. I'd also be pretty cheesed off if I was an airline - making all these investments in on-board Internet, and now having it banned. As for the others, I think I could get used to them - I rarely use my iPod when flying anyways (stick with sleeping or in-seat TV), could pack my bag slightly better if needed to eliminate the "personal article" we're now allowed to carry on, and time my bathroom breaks better (the no-standing rule was in force flying into Reagan for a while post-9/11). More broadly, however, it pisses me off on the grounds that it assumes everyone is a criminal, and would do almost nothing in terms of actual airline security.
- ghshephard 17y ago"carry it with you when you went to the washroom." You aren't suggesting you need to carry your laptop case with you into the _airplane_ washroom are you? Talking about security theater...
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]