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I'm not saying that state monopolies are good. I'm saying that people need to get over the idea that everything they dislike or disagree with is "a tax". It i

I'm not saying that state monopolies are good. I'm saying that people need to get over the idea that everything they dislike or disagree with is "a tax". It isn't. A state monopoly on fuel would be almost impossible to avoid, and you could reasonably assert that it's a tax (there would be debate, but your position would be reasonable). After all, even if you don't yourself consume fuel, almost every product you could possibly buy has to be transported from somewhere, and most transportation services available today use fuel. A lottery is nothing like that. The product, such as it is, does not form a component of the cost of any other product. All you have to do to avoid giving the state money is not play the lottery, which should be very easy since they are very up front about the fact that a ticket is not only -ev but much more -ev than any casino or cardroom game you could possibly play. If people stopped playing, the state would either give up its monopoly or (in a classic monopoly-monopsony dynamic) cut its prices. And in the meantime, ex-players would be better off as well.

mgalka 11y ago
Sounds like we are just talking semantics. When you buy liquor, you pay the market price (call it $10) plus an excise tax that the government adds on (let's say $2). Imagine the government nationalizes the liquor business. The buy up every liquor company, and continue operating them the same way as before ($10 price + $2 tax). I think anyone would agree that this $2 would still be considered a tax. Now let's say the government gets rid of the $2 tax, but bumps the price of liquor up to $12. The tax is still there, it's just implicit now.
- aianus 11y ago
  > Imagine the government nationalizes the liquor business. I live in Toronto, no need to imagine :(
  - green7ea 11y ago
    If only it was simply 2$ and not what is closer to 10$.
morgante 11y ago
Are liquor taxes not taxes? You can absolutely avoid paying them by not drinking, and millions of people indeed do just that, but the fact that a tax is easily avoidable does not make it any less of a tax.
- Retric 11y ago
  There are huge negative externalities to liquor which muddles the issue. If not forcing people to pay a carbon tax is a subsidy then the 'liquor' tax may not be an economic tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality Gas taxes are perhaps the clearest example of this where you can directly compare revenue with costs.
Asbostos 11y ago
The "tax" part of the lottery is a component of the gambling part. The gambling part is the product people pay for. Just like a tax on cigarettes, or in some countries a tax on every consumer product (VAT). You can always avoid the tax by not buying the product or reduce it by buying cheaper products, but we still call it a tax.

mgalka 11y ago

Sounds like we are just talking semantics. When you buy liquor, you pay the market price (call it $10) plus an excise tax that the government adds on (let's say $2). Imagine the government nationalizes the liquor business. The buy up every liquor company, and continue operating them the same way as before ($10 price + $2 tax). I think anyone would agree that this $2 would still be considered a tax. Now let's say the government gets rid of the $2 tax, but bumps the price of liquor up to $12. The tax is still there, it's just implicit now.

aianus 11y ago
> Imagine the government nationalizes the liquor business. I live in Toronto, no need to imagine :(
- green7ea 11y ago
  If only it was simply 2$ and not what is closer to 10$.

morgante 11y ago

Are liquor taxes not taxes? You can absolutely avoid paying them by not drinking, and millions of people indeed do just that, but the fact that a tax is easily avoidable does not make it any less of a tax.

Retric 11y ago
There are huge negative externalities to liquor which muddles the issue. If not forcing people to pay a carbon tax is a subsidy then the 'liquor' tax may not be an economic tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality Gas taxes are perhaps the clearest example of this where you can directly compare revenue with costs.

Asbostos 11y ago

The "tax" part of the lottery is a component of the gambling part. The gambling part is the product people pay for. Just like a tax on cigarettes, or in some countries a tax on every consumer product (VAT). You can always avoid the tax by not buying the product or reduce it by buying cheaper products, but we still call it a tax.