6 ms·

Harvey's Casino Bomb

93 points by Element_ 11y ago

gvb 11y ago
More story: http://web.archive.org/web/20121028034758/http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Aug-27-Sat-2005/news/27105542.html http://web.archive.org/web/20121028034758/http://www.reviewj... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey%27s_Resort_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey%27s_Resort_Hotel_bombin...
- lost_name 11y ago
  Also, another great narrative of the event was posted a little while ago from the Damn Interesting podcast. Links to the discussions below; follow through for the podcast and transcript. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9725851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9725851
- kryptiskt 11y ago
  Another article: https://read.atavist.com/a-thousand-pounds-of-dynamite?no-overlay&preview https://read.atavist.com/a-thousand-pounds-of-dynamite?no-ov...
  - bronson 11y ago
    That was a hell of an article! Excellent read.
6stringmerc 11y ago
Quite an intriguing set of circumstances and malicious creativity. My takeaway is to re-work of an old proverb, one that seems describe the attitude for Las Vegas in this situation: When life gives you a casino bomb, turn it into a gambling and tourism opportunity.
Element_ 11y ago
Here is a picture of the see-through FBI model: https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/november/fbi-technology-expo/tech-expo-gallery/model-of-harveys-bomb https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/november/fbi-technolog... and an explanation of the triggers https://dh1rvgpokacch.cloudfront.net/atavist/1/video/iphone/animationw-1406828466-38.mov.mp4 https://dh1rvgpokacch.cloudfront.net/atavist/1/video/iphone/...
- Phlarp 11y ago
  That is terrifyingly well thought out.
  - acveilleux 11y ago
    Seriously, this guy should manufacture tamper-resistant cryptographic module enclosures!
    - ihsw 11y ago
      Just put it in those hard plastic blister packs, those are impossible to open.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Terrorism tourism? The future is going to be interesting.
sbarre 11y ago
The casino operation wanted to open part of their gambling area that was not damaged. And they did build this big wall and put a big picture window in it so that the gamblers could watch the FBI process the crime scene for the next few weeks. Hah! This would never be allowed today!
than 11y ago
How did he arm the darn thing without setting it off?
- batbomb 11y ago
  Either the switches activate the battery or they activate the trigger circuits (probably both). I should also note that, unless you had extremely detailed pictures of the switches themselves (or part numbers), you could easily use a combination of switches which appears to do one thing but instead does another, so X-Rays and a wiring diagram wouldn't necessarily be helpful in discovering the actual path of electricity. You could maybe do something clever with a very sensitive electrometer, but that would take way too long. Arming it doesn't seem like the hard part to me. I think the hard part, with all the foil based triggers and spring loaded screws, would be construction and QA and making sure you don't kill yourself activating the thing because there's some filings completing a circuit you didn't know about.
  - FreeFull 11y ago
    Before you arm the thing you also have to make sure it's tilted just right, because of the tilt switch, which I imagine is rather tricky.
    - raisedbyninjas 11y ago
      It was made with threaded leveling feet and bubble levels. According to Wikipedia, bubble levels can be made with quite a bit of precision.
    - jamie_ca 11y ago
      Yeah, the write-ups I've read all said that it was very precisely levelled before arming.
archivator 11y ago
Damn Interesting did a full episode on the entire event - http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ It's really fascinating stuff.
OSButler 11y ago
I'm curious how such a device would be approached with today's knowledge, seeing that one of the links mentioned in the comments noted that it's still being used in FBI training.
- sandycheeks 11y ago
  I always wondered if the problem with the shaped charge was that the battery served to keep it from somehow being mechanically detonated rather than the battery being used to provide power for detonation. Seemed like the kind of red herring this bomb maker would use but I can't imagine how that would be hidden from x-rays.
eplanit 11y ago
I can't help but think that the bomb maker was inspired by the movie Juggernaut[1], which came out just a few years before this event. In that movie, the bomb maker designed and built-in several layers of booby-traps, including vibration switches, layers of detonation circuits, etc. as was used here. Not a bad movie, FWIW. [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071706/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071706/
happyfriend 11y ago
Edit: Point out honeypot to "hackers" and get DVed. Well played guys.
- krapp 11y ago
  I realize addressing such a downvoted comment is frowned upon here, but since there might be others who believe your paranoid attitude is credible, I would just point out that the chances of the USG not already knowing about Hacker News are zero. If you really believe that merely sending your IP and a referer from Hacker News to a public .gov site will get you put on a terror watchlist (somehow), why are you not hiding your IP from Hacker News itself?
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > I would just point out that the chances of the USG not already knowing about Hacker News are zero. Well, since USDS/18F people post to the "Whose hiring" threads, that's pretty obvious.
csense 11y ago
A much more lengthy write-up was on HN front page a couple months ago. Here's a quote from it [1]: """ Decades after “the machine” radically remodeled a portion of Harvey’s Wagon Wheel Casino, Big John’s masterpiece bomb maintains legendary status at the FBI. Bureau agents acknowledge that it is unlikely that even modern bomb squads and technology could make much headway disarming Big John’s improvised explosive without setting it off...the Harvey’s bomb was the largest domestic bomb ever to explode in the United States until the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993...why so few people these days seem to remember...Jonkey’s speculation is succinct: “Nobody died.” """ [1] http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/
- webXL 11y ago
  No wonder why it just fell off the front page. Thanks for sharing that link. I've been in that casino so many times and never knew about this event. Crazy.
dang 11y ago
Discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123.

93 points by Element_ 11y ago

gvb 11y ago

More story: http://web.archive.org/web/20121028034758/http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Aug-27-Sat-2005/news/27105542.html http://web.archive.org/web/20121028034758/http://www.reviewj... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey%27s_Resort_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey%27s_Resort_Hotel_bombin...

lost_name 11y ago
Also, another great narrative of the event was posted a little while ago from the Damn Interesting podcast. Links to the discussions below; follow through for the podcast and transcript. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9725851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9725851
kryptiskt 11y ago
Another article: https://read.atavist.com/a-thousand-pounds-of-dynamite?no-overlay&preview https://read.atavist.com/a-thousand-pounds-of-dynamite?no-ov...
- bronson 11y ago
  That was a hell of an article! Excellent read.

6stringmerc 11y ago

Quite an intriguing set of circumstances and malicious creativity. My takeaway is to re-work of an old proverb, one that seems describe the attitude for Las Vegas in this situation: When life gives you a casino bomb, turn it into a gambling and tourism opportunity.

Element_ 11y ago

Here is a picture of the see-through FBI model: https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/november/fbi-technology-expo/tech-expo-gallery/model-of-harveys-bomb https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/november/fbi-technolog... and an explanation of the triggers https://dh1rvgpokacch.cloudfront.net/atavist/1/video/iphone/animationw-1406828466-38.mov.mp4 https://dh1rvgpokacch.cloudfront.net/atavist/1/video/iphone/...

Phlarp 11y ago
That is terrifyingly well thought out.
- acveilleux 11y ago
  Seriously, this guy should manufacture tamper-resistant cryptographic module enclosures!
  - ihsw 11y ago
    Just put it in those hard plastic blister packs, those are impossible to open.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

Terrorism tourism? The future is going to be interesting.

sbarre 11y ago

The casino operation wanted to open part of their gambling area that was not damaged. And they did build this big wall and put a big picture window in it so that the gamblers could watch the FBI process the crime scene for the next few weeks. Hah! This would never be allowed today!

than 11y ago

How did he arm the darn thing without setting it off?

batbomb 11y ago
Either the switches activate the battery or they activate the trigger circuits (probably both). I should also note that, unless you had extremely detailed pictures of the switches themselves (or part numbers), you could easily use a combination of switches which appears to do one thing but instead does another, so X-Rays and a wiring diagram wouldn't necessarily be helpful in discovering the actual path of electricity. You could maybe do something clever with a very sensitive electrometer, but that would take way too long. Arming it doesn't seem like the hard part to me. I think the hard part, with all the foil based triggers and spring loaded screws, would be construction and QA and making sure you don't kill yourself activating the thing because there's some filings completing a circuit you didn't know about.
- FreeFull 11y ago
  Before you arm the thing you also have to make sure it's tilted just right, because of the tilt switch, which I imagine is rather tricky.
  - raisedbyninjas 11y ago
    It was made with threaded leveling feet and bubble levels. According to Wikipedia, bubble levels can be made with quite a bit of precision.
  - jamie_ca 11y ago
    Yeah, the write-ups I've read all said that it was very precisely levelled before arming.

archivator 11y ago

Damn Interesting did a full episode on the entire event - http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ It's really fascinating stuff.

OSButler 11y ago

I'm curious how such a device would be approached with today's knowledge, seeing that one of the links mentioned in the comments noted that it's still being used in FBI training.

sandycheeks 11y ago
I always wondered if the problem with the shaped charge was that the battery served to keep it from somehow being mechanically detonated rather than the battery being used to provide power for detonation. Seemed like the kind of red herring this bomb maker would use but I can't imagine how that would be hidden from x-rays.

eplanit 11y ago

I can't help but think that the bomb maker was inspired by the movie Juggernaut[1], which came out just a few years before this event. In that movie, the bomb maker designed and built-in several layers of booby-traps, including vibration switches, layers of detonation circuits, etc. as was used here. Not a bad movie, FWIW. [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071706/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071706/

happyfriend 11y ago

Edit: Point out honeypot to "hackers" and get DVed. Well played guys.

krapp 11y ago
I realize addressing such a downvoted comment is frowned upon here, but since there might be others who believe your paranoid attitude is credible, I would just point out that the chances of the USG not already knowing about Hacker News are zero. If you really believe that merely sending your IP and a referer from Hacker News to a public .gov site will get you put on a terror watchlist (somehow), why are you not hiding your IP from Hacker News itself?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > I would just point out that the chances of the USG not already knowing about Hacker News are zero. Well, since USDS/18F people post to the "Whose hiring" threads, that's pretty obvious.

csense 11y ago

A much more lengthy write-up was on HN front page a couple months ago. Here's a quote from it [1]: """ Decades after “the machine” radically remodeled a portion of Harvey’s Wagon Wheel Casino, Big John’s masterpiece bomb maintains legendary status at the FBI. Bureau agents acknowledge that it is unlikely that even modern bomb squads and technology could make much headway disarming Big John’s improvised explosive without setting it off...the Harvey’s bomb was the largest domestic bomb ever to explode in the United States until the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993...why so few people these days seem to remember...Jonkey’s speculation is succinct: “Nobody died.” """ [1] http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/

webXL 11y ago
No wonder why it just fell off the front page. Thanks for sharing that link. I've been in that casino so many times and never knew about this event. Crazy.

dang 11y ago

Discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816123.