4 ms·

Plastic bags are good for you

12 points by acheron 11y ago

HarryHirsch 11y ago
Why is it that environmental conservation is anathema to the right wing? Laisser faire, social conservatism, individual freedom, these are concepts that traditionally go with the Right, but the environment is orthogonal to all these.
- brandon272 11y ago
  When you tie up things like environmentalism and alternative energy you start to invite interests like big oil into the discussion which can have incredible influence in the media and popular culture when it comes to shaping left/right "identity" over the issue.
- bko 11y ago
  Obviously Reason is a libertarian publication, but the article argues that plastic bags are not bad for the environment, considering the alternatives. The overall opposition by libertarian/conservative groups is that conservation policies require centralized control and action. You can both accept the possibility of global catastrophe based on environmental damages, but you also fear the centralized control that is required to even try and manage the potential crises. Also, many are skeptical of the political process as an effective means to solve big problems.
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  They're examples of successful and popular government interventions, which makes libertarianism look bad.
liamcardenas 11y ago
Although I am partial to this argument, I did not walk away from this article thinking that plastic bags are good. However, it did make a case for why they are "less bad" than most people think. Key points: - Plastic bags a technologically marvelous and poor people can use them to carry many groceries - Plastic bags make up only 0.6% of visible litter, and plastic grocery bags are but a subset of that -- other studies with higher numbers have unreliable methodologies. - As David Santillo, a senior biologist with Greenpeace, told The Times of London, "It's very unlikely that many animals are killed by plastic bags. The evidence shows just the opposite. We are not going to solve the problem of waste by focusing on plastic bags. With larger mammals it's fishing gear that's the big problem. On a global basis plastic bags aren't an issue." - Most plastic bags are made with natural gas, and not oil (and even if it were oil, 100 billion bags would be less oil than American consumes in one day) - Ultimately, the amount (in tons) of reusable bags thrown in landfills every year is greater than that of plastic bags. - Reusable bags can be unsanitary and have led to an outbreak of norovirus (and I assume other incidents as well, although no other figures were provided) I do think this is sufficient evidence to oppose bans on plastic bags (although -- as I said before -- I am biased). In order to make something illegal, a very strong case should be made against it. Banning plastic bags would have virtually no effect on liter, global warming, landfills, or animals life. That being said, I wish there were more of a comparison with paper bags, so we could determine which one is truly the best.
- PantaloonFlames 11y ago
  The takeaway is that there is no magic solution. Consumption implies impact, whether you use paper or plastic. Unless you shop at a farm, there's still a bunch of packaging in your grocery haul outside of the carrying bag - the box containing the froot loops, the bag containing the organic beet chips, the foam plate and plastic wrap that contains your free-range chicken. Therefore be thoughtful about what you consume. tl/dr: Re-use your paper bags. Ride your bike to the grocery.

12 points by acheron 11y ago

Why is it that environmental conservation is anathema to the right wing? Laisser faire, social conservatism, individual freedom, these are concepts that traditionally go with the Right, but the environment is orthogonal to all these.

brandon272 11y ago
When you tie up things like environmentalism and alternative energy you start to invite interests like big oil into the discussion which can have incredible influence in the media and popular culture when it comes to shaping left/right "identity" over the issue.
bko 11y ago
Obviously Reason is a libertarian publication, but the article argues that plastic bags are not bad for the environment, considering the alternatives. The overall opposition by libertarian/conservative groups is that conservation policies require centralized control and action. You can both accept the possibility of global catastrophe based on environmental damages, but you also fear the centralized control that is required to even try and manage the potential crises. Also, many are skeptical of the political process as an effective means to solve big problems.
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
They're examples of successful and popular government interventions, which makes libertarianism look bad.

liamcardenas 11y ago

Although I am partial to this argument, I did not walk away from this article thinking that plastic bags are good. However, it did make a case for why they are "less bad" than most people think. Key points: - Plastic bags a technologically marvelous and poor people can use them to carry many groceries - Plastic bags make up only 0.6% of visible litter, and plastic grocery bags are but a subset of that -- other studies with higher numbers have unreliable methodologies. - As David Santillo, a senior biologist with Greenpeace, told The Times of London, "It's very unlikely that many animals are killed by plastic bags. The evidence shows just the opposite. We are not going to solve the problem of waste by focusing on plastic bags. With larger mammals it's fishing gear that's the big problem. On a global basis plastic bags aren't an issue." - Most plastic bags are made with natural gas, and not oil (and even if it were oil, 100 billion bags would be less oil than American consumes in one day) - Ultimately, the amount (in tons) of reusable bags thrown in landfills every year is greater than that of plastic bags. - Reusable bags can be unsanitary and have led to an outbreak of norovirus (and I assume other incidents as well, although no other figures were provided) I do think this is sufficient evidence to oppose bans on plastic bags (although -- as I said before -- I am biased). In order to make something illegal, a very strong case should be made against it. Banning plastic bags would have virtually no effect on liter, global warming, landfills, or animals life. That being said, I wish there were more of a comparison with paper bags, so we could determine which one is truly the best.

PantaloonFlames 11y ago
The takeaway is that there is no magic solution. Consumption implies impact, whether you use paper or plastic. Unless you shop at a farm, there's still a bunch of packaging in your grocery haul outside of the carrying bag - the box containing the froot loops, the bag containing the organic beet chips, the foam plate and plastic wrap that contains your free-range chicken. Therefore be thoughtful about what you consume. tl/dr: Re-use your paper bags. Ride your bike to the grocery.