10 ms·

We have our own continent to deal with. We already have hundreds of thousands of refugees coming to the US from central/south America every year. How many refug

We have our own continent to deal with. We already have hundreds of thousands of refugees coming to the US from central/south America every year. How many refugees are we supposed to accept anyway?

sp332 11y ago
As many as we can?
- hoopd 11y ago
  define "can"
  - hoopd 11y ago
    As usual, a challenge to the drive-by downvoters: answer the question. At what point have we done all we can? We "can" give ourselves as slaves to refugees to make their lives easier but I don't think that's what was meant. So A) where's the line and B) how close are we to that line?
    - sp332 11y ago
      I don't think we're really straining ourselves to handle the amount of refugees we are currently taking. That means, wherever the line is, we're not that close to it.
      - hoopd 11y ago
        By what measure? If you don't know how to recognize when it's become a problem then it's not meaningful when you say you don't see a problem. What is straining to you? I would describe our education system, our legal system, our prison system and our welfare system as all being currently "strained" so we must have different definitions. (and to the downvoting crew, feel free to explain to me what productive disagreeement looks like, eh?)
        sp332 11y ago
        I don't think the strain on any of those things is caused by immigration. If we improved them to make them better for current residents, it would also increase our capacity for immigrants. But I'd see that as just a side effect of fixing broken systems.
        hoopd 11y ago
        You've once again avoided giving even a qualitative answer as to what strain caused by immigration would look like. A first step would be admitting that it's even possible. You've also made the mistake of thinking that just because you've found one problem that others must not exist. We can have broken systems and problems caused by immagration. 10% ESL students in our public education system should qualify as a strain. 17% of California's prisoners being born abroad should qualify as a strain. Are these numbers not high enough for you? If not, what does too high look like to you?
        sp332 11y ago
        I've been letting you identify the problems because frankly I can't see any. California has so many prisoners it doesn't have enough prisons for them all. The solution is easy: imprison fewer people. Too many ESL students? That solves itself over time as they become ESL (or even non-English) teachers.
        hoopd 11y ago
        If you don't know what a problematic level of immigration looks like then you have no idea if you're looking directly at it or not. You're telling me you haven't seen any chickens lately, I'm asking what you think a chicken looks like, and you're saying you don't see any right now. A 10% ESL student population doesn't solve itself. That's like a child thinking that their refrigerator magically fills itself when it gets empty. If you ignore that solutions have costs than yes by your definition ESL students have no costs associated with them. I asked about the strain on the legal system due to immigrant populations, specifically the prison system in California. You said we should put less people in jail. While that's true it doesn't solve the problem unless we're going to change our laws to the extent that aggravated assault is no longer a crime. Then we've once again solved the problem by refusing to admit it even exists.
  - owlee 11y ago
    and "we" while you're at it.
- mcmalloc 11y ago
  We aren't even able to take care of all the poor people that are already here, and you think we can accommodate millions more?
  - tdkl 11y ago
    I'm positive FED will be able to print some more money, there's always enough for military actions in middle East in the first place.
  - sp332 11y ago
    Not all of them, but a lot of them. Anyway just because we haven't doesn't mean we can't.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    The amount spent on the bombs ($22k) or missiles ($110k) used to [possibly] kill enemy targets could rather easily pay to accommodate a few refugees long enough for them to either assimilate and find jobs or wait out the crisis and return home. All it takes is a commitment to finally throttle the military materiel manufacturing economy--that was ramped up during World War 2--back to a peacetime proportion of the budget. As it is now, the U.S. has to continually go out and look for new conflicts, and beat loudly the drums of war, to justify that high level of military spending. We have been waiting a long time to beat those swords back into plowshares, and they just keep making more swords. I think that the entire quota of 70k refugees can be adequately provided for in less than one month just by taking the buildings on a bare handful of shuttered military bases out of mothballs. We can accommodate millions more, and take care of the poor people that are already here. Our elected politicians prevent such occurrences using the flimsiest of justifications.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      Friend, I think you'll find that a proposal to deeply restructure whole economies and societies will not be well-received by people reluctant to accept smaller changes. Have you considered appealing to what your audience is likely to care about, rather than the goals you find appealing?
danmaz74 11y ago
I didn't know there were any wars in South America, lately.
- mc32 11y ago
  Most latin immigrants are economic refugees and those escaping local gangland violence rather than regime violence.
  - danmaz74 11y ago
    "Economic refugee"? This is some way to make a word lose its meaning. At this point any immigrant would become a refugee. "A refugee is a person who is outside their home country because they have suffered (or feared) persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, or political opinion; because they are a member of a persecuted social category of persons; or because they are fleeing a war." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee
    - sp332 11y ago
      Sigh: According to the researchers, a lack of protection of migrants in the region was based on a "false distinction" between a forced and an economic migrant, instead of focusing on the real and urgent needs some of these migrants have. The report suggested that a better term would be "forced humanitarian migrants", who moved for the purpose of their and their dependents' basic survival. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Economic_migrants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Economic_migrants
- mcmalloc 11y ago
  So your country has to be in the middle of a civil war for you to be a refugee? Well damn, let's go tell all the people in Honduras and El Salvador that they can't leave and seek asylum because they're not allowed to be refugees.
- filoeleven 11y ago
  It's the War on Drugs, waged by America, and it's been going on for decades.
Kluny 11y ago
How about every single one that asks?

We have our own continent to deal with. We already have hundreds of thousands of refugees coming to the US from central/south America every year. How many refugees are we supposed to accept anyway?

sp332 11y ago

As many as we can?

hoopd 11y ago
define "can"
- hoopd 11y ago
  As usual, a challenge to the drive-by downvoters: answer the question. At what point have we done all we can? We "can" give ourselves as slaves to refugees to make their lives easier but I don't think that's what was meant. So A) where's the line and B) how close are we to that line?
  - sp332 11y ago
    I don't think we're really straining ourselves to handle the amount of refugees we are currently taking. That means, wherever the line is, we're not that close to it.
    - hoopd 11y ago
      By what measure? If you don't know how to recognize when it's become a problem then it's not meaningful when you say you don't see a problem. What is straining to you? I would describe our education system, our legal system, our prison system and our welfare system as all being currently "strained" so we must have different definitions. (and to the downvoting crew, feel free to explain to me what productive disagreeement looks like, eh?)
      - sp332 11y ago
        I don't think the strain on any of those things is caused by immigration. If we improved them to make them better for current residents, it would also increase our capacity for immigrants. But I'd see that as just a side effect of fixing broken systems.
        hoopd 11y ago
        You've once again avoided giving even a qualitative answer as to what strain caused by immigration would look like. A first step would be admitting that it's even possible. You've also made the mistake of thinking that just because you've found one problem that others must not exist. We can have broken systems and problems caused by immagration. 10% ESL students in our public education system should qualify as a strain. 17% of California's prisoners being born abroad should qualify as a strain. Are these numbers not high enough for you? If not, what does too high look like to you?
        sp332 11y ago
        I've been letting you identify the problems because frankly I can't see any. California has so many prisoners it doesn't have enough prisons for them all. The solution is easy: imprison fewer people. Too many ESL students? That solves itself over time as they become ESL (or even non-English) teachers.
        hoopd 11y ago
        If you don't know what a problematic level of immigration looks like then you have no idea if you're looking directly at it or not. You're telling me you haven't seen any chickens lately, I'm asking what you think a chicken looks like, and you're saying you don't see any right now. A 10% ESL student population doesn't solve itself. That's like a child thinking that their refrigerator magically fills itself when it gets empty. If you ignore that solutions have costs than yes by your definition ESL students have no costs associated with them. I asked about the strain on the legal system due to immigrant populations, specifically the prison system in California. You said we should put less people in jail. While that's true it doesn't solve the problem unless we're going to change our laws to the extent that aggravated assault is no longer a crime. Then we've once again solved the problem by refusing to admit it even exists.
- owlee 11y ago
  and "we" while you're at it.
mcmalloc 11y ago
We aren't even able to take care of all the poor people that are already here, and you think we can accommodate millions more?
- tdkl 11y ago
  I'm positive FED will be able to print some more money, there's always enough for military actions in middle East in the first place.
- sp332 11y ago
  Not all of them, but a lot of them. Anyway just because we haven't doesn't mean we can't.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  The amount spent on the bombs ($22k) or missiles ($110k) used to [possibly] kill enemy targets could rather easily pay to accommodate a few refugees long enough for them to either assimilate and find jobs or wait out the crisis and return home. All it takes is a commitment to finally throttle the military materiel manufacturing economy--that was ramped up during World War 2--back to a peacetime proportion of the budget. As it is now, the U.S. has to continually go out and look for new conflicts, and beat loudly the drums of war, to justify that high level of military spending. We have been waiting a long time to beat those swords back into plowshares, and they just keep making more swords. I think that the entire quota of 70k refugees can be adequately provided for in less than one month just by taking the buildings on a bare handful of shuttered military bases out of mothballs. We can accommodate millions more, and take care of the poor people that are already here. Our elected politicians prevent such occurrences using the flimsiest of justifications.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    Friend, I think you'll find that a proposal to deeply restructure whole economies and societies will not be well-received by people reluctant to accept smaller changes. Have you considered appealing to what your audience is likely to care about, rather than the goals you find appealing?

danmaz74 11y ago

I didn't know there were any wars in South America, lately.

mc32 11y ago
Most latin immigrants are economic refugees and those escaping local gangland violence rather than regime violence.
- danmaz74 11y ago
  "Economic refugee"? This is some way to make a word lose its meaning. At this point any immigrant would become a refugee. "A refugee is a person who is outside their home country because they have suffered (or feared) persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, or political opinion; because they are a member of a persecuted social category of persons; or because they are fleeing a war." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee
  - sp332 11y ago
    Sigh: According to the researchers, a lack of protection of migrants in the region was based on a "false distinction" between a forced and an economic migrant, instead of focusing on the real and urgent needs some of these migrants have. The report suggested that a better term would be "forced humanitarian migrants", who moved for the purpose of their and their dependents' basic survival. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Economic_migrants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Economic_migrants
mcmalloc 11y ago
So your country has to be in the middle of a civil war for you to be a refugee? Well damn, let's go tell all the people in Honduras and El Salvador that they can't leave and seek asylum because they're not allowed to be refugees.
filoeleven 11y ago
It's the War on Drugs, waged by America, and it's been going on for decades.

Kluny 11y ago

How about every single one that asks?