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Correction: Germany is believed to handle thousands per day, just as Hungary has handled more than 2k/day throughout August: http://www.theguardian.com/world/20

Correction: Germany is believed to handle thousands per day, just as Hungary has handled more than 2k/day throughout August: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/trains-of-refugees-reach-germany-as-eu-asylum-checks-collapse http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/trains-of-refug... As a country of 80M people (Germany), they can probably handle quite a few but there's a point when the demographic shift is going to be.. unpleasant. Most immigrants don't leave their old practices behind and in most cases, that's not a big deal. This group of immigrant isn't Christian or areligious (most of Europe is one of the two) and doesn't hold similar views of [choose: women, society, gays, religion, etc, etc], so there already are and will continue to be clashes. Hopefully those groups assimilate into the common German belief/societal structures but history says that with big enough numbers, they won't have to..

phaer 11y ago
A relevant part of "this group", if you talk about refugees from Syria, actually is Christian or secular/atheist. And many of them who are even Muslim actually share a bunch of questionable views of women and gays with conservative German Christians.
- dba7dba 11y ago
  Did’t think there were enough Germans that are conservative and/or Christian anymore?
  - lentil_soup 11y ago
    Not that that is the whole story but the governing party is called the "Christian Democratic Union of Germany"
    - y4mi 11y ago
      its their name, not their program. the cdu isnt really a christian party anymore, considering how many of their staff are self proclaimed atheists
    - dba7dba 11y ago
      That remind me about North Korea's official name which made me chuckle. It is: Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)
  - facepalm 11y ago
    The value system is still very much influenced by Christianity, though.
- Torgo 11y ago
  I love how you knew you had to tie those beliefs back to white European Christians somehow to sell this viewpoint.
gozo 11y ago
Because the people who oppose immigration tend to have very nice views on women, society, gays, religion etc? Maybe the problem is that some Germans don't respect others people freedom to think whatever they want.
- chki 11y ago
  I'm from Germany and do not oppose immigration and/or hosting refugees. I agree with you that especially some people opposing immigration have a twisted worldview on these topics. However, I think your last sentence is really problematic. People have the freedom to think what they want; but I think that the fundamental values of our society (freedom, democracy, equality) have to persist and I would not accept _anybody_ (no matter where they come from) to attack these values.
  - alan_cx 11y ago
    Perhaps the attacks on our fundamental values helps to prevent the silent majority taking them for granted? Im not talking violent terror type attacks, more the freedom to argue against them.
  - michaelbuddy 11y ago
    you don't oppose hosting refugees, but you aren't going to have any in your home or directly funding I bet. Most people who are ok with it, or claim to be, are suspiciously not directly dealing with it. surprise surprise. Not only that but Germany is actively censoring opinions against it, including through facebook youtube and other URLs. That's the thing, people don't have the freedom tho think what they want in this case.
    - chki 11y ago
      To your first point: Yes, I'm not hosting any refugees or giving more money than I would be giving with my taxes. (But I'm currently going to school and do not earn any money, so that is not really a question to consider) But I personally think that hosting refugees is the responsibility of the state. (A climate of acceptance - in contrast to that - is important and as we have refugees in our school, this is a responsibility I take as well.) To your second point: I have never heard of such censoring but would be interested in it, if it exists.
crdb 11y ago
What is important is that the rule of law and individual rights do not break down or become unequally applied. If justice and the police scale with the influx, refugees can integrate well and fast, even if their food and home practices might look different. If you let ghettos develop, you have a problem. In your example, the solution is not to let women or gays be oppressed, and not allow sharia courts to supercede the governmental ones. People can retain their views so long as they don't actually go on and infringe on the rights of others, if they do they go to jail. Singapore even outright discusses how fast infrastructure and services are growing and sets the amount of immigration for the year accordingly. I suspect if Germany really was willing to take up the majority of the million Syrian refugees (and mass immigration from any other country in distress), it would make sure to invest accordingly and be able to integrate that many as the US has done in the early 20th century [1] (so much for history). If they get it right, it might be a huge economic boom and great long term move. As for "the common German belief/societal structures", no culture is stagnant (and clearly not German values, if you look at the 20th century alone!). Even the US is a strange mix of a dozen traditions, cultures and habits which have blended into "American". For example, most world citizen think of the US, not Italy, when eating a slice of pizza. People call a flat white Australian, but the Australian coffee culture which is spreading globally today is a direct descendant of Italian immigration to the country. Immigrants adapt to the local custom (cf "Chinese-American" food, secularisation of the second generation, etc.) and the country adapts to its immigrants. [1] "between 1880 and 1920 [...] brought more than 4 million Italians to America" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American) - this when the total US population in 1920 was 104 million (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_Census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_Census). How many famous Americans today, like Rudy Giuliani, Jay Leno or Madonna have Italian origins?
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  We know for a fact that the rule of law and individual rights break down. News in canada yesterday just had a disabled canadian who couldn't move into housing because it was a muslim-only housing project which was unequally applied by the canadian govt. We also know that in Sweden, France, migrants are given a free pass even when rioting, robbing and hurting the local populace. Sweden lets rapists walk after really small sentences relative to the violence of the crime. Do they deport? No. Good luck with your dreamy views.

phaer 11y ago

A relevant part of "this group", if you talk about refugees from Syria, actually is Christian or secular/atheist. And many of them who are even Muslim actually share a bunch of questionable views of women and gays with conservative German Christians.

dba7dba 11y ago
Did’t think there were enough Germans that are conservative and/or Christian anymore?
- lentil_soup 11y ago
  Not that that is the whole story but the governing party is called the "Christian Democratic Union of Germany"
  - y4mi 11y ago
    its their name, not their program. the cdu isnt really a christian party anymore, considering how many of their staff are self proclaimed atheists
  - dba7dba 11y ago
    That remind me about North Korea's official name which made me chuckle. It is: Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)
- facepalm 11y ago
  The value system is still very much influenced by Christianity, though.
Torgo 11y ago
I love how you knew you had to tie those beliefs back to white European Christians somehow to sell this viewpoint.

gozo 11y ago

Because the people who oppose immigration tend to have very nice views on women, society, gays, religion etc? Maybe the problem is that some Germans don't respect others people freedom to think whatever they want.

chki 11y ago
I'm from Germany and do not oppose immigration and/or hosting refugees. I agree with you that especially some people opposing immigration have a twisted worldview on these topics. However, I think your last sentence is really problematic. People have the freedom to think what they want; but I think that the fundamental values of our society (freedom, democracy, equality) have to persist and I would not accept _anybody_ (no matter where they come from) to attack these values.
- alan_cx 11y ago
  Perhaps the attacks on our fundamental values helps to prevent the silent majority taking them for granted? Im not talking violent terror type attacks, more the freedom to argue against them.
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  you don't oppose hosting refugees, but you aren't going to have any in your home or directly funding I bet. Most people who are ok with it, or claim to be, are suspiciously not directly dealing with it. surprise surprise. Not only that but Germany is actively censoring opinions against it, including through facebook youtube and other URLs. That's the thing, people don't have the freedom tho think what they want in this case.
  - chki 11y ago
    To your first point: Yes, I'm not hosting any refugees or giving more money than I would be giving with my taxes. (But I'm currently going to school and do not earn any money, so that is not really a question to consider) But I personally think that hosting refugees is the responsibility of the state. (A climate of acceptance - in contrast to that - is important and as we have refugees in our school, this is a responsibility I take as well.) To your second point: I have never heard of such censoring but would be interested in it, if it exists.

crdb 11y ago

What is important is that the rule of law and individual rights do not break down or become unequally applied. If justice and the police scale with the influx, refugees can integrate well and fast, even if their food and home practices might look different. If you let ghettos develop, you have a problem. In your example, the solution is not to let women or gays be oppressed, and not allow sharia courts to supercede the governmental ones. People can retain their views so long as they don't actually go on and infringe on the rights of others, if they do they go to jail. Singapore even outright discusses how fast infrastructure and services are growing and sets the amount of immigration for the year accordingly. I suspect if Germany really was willing to take up the majority of the million Syrian refugees (and mass immigration from any other country in distress), it would make sure to invest accordingly and be able to integrate that many as the US has done in the early 20th century [1] (so much for history). If they get it right, it might be a huge economic boom and great long term move. As for "the common German belief/societal structures", no culture is stagnant (and clearly not German values, if you look at the 20th century alone!). Even the US is a strange mix of a dozen traditions, cultures and habits which have blended into "American". For example, most world citizen think of the US, not Italy, when eating a slice of pizza. People call a flat white Australian, but the Australian coffee culture which is spreading globally today is a direct descendant of Italian immigration to the country. Immigrants adapt to the local custom (cf "Chinese-American" food, secularisation of the second generation, etc.) and the country adapts to its immigrants. [1] "between 1880 and 1920 [...] brought more than 4 million Italians to America" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American) - this when the total US population in 1920 was 104 million (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_Census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_Census). How many famous Americans today, like Rudy Giuliani, Jay Leno or Madonna have Italian origins?

michaelbuddy 11y ago
We know for a fact that the rule of law and individual rights break down. News in canada yesterday just had a disabled canadian who couldn't move into housing because it was a muslim-only housing project which was unequally applied by the canadian govt. We also know that in Sweden, France, migrants are given a free pass even when rioting, robbing and hurting the local populace. Sweden lets rapists walk after really small sentences relative to the violence of the crime. Do they deport? No. Good luck with your dreamy views.