4 ms·

Everything is a meritocracy until the bankers arrive. Well, the bankers have arrived.

by mbesto 11y ago

eropple 11y ago
But it was never a meritocracy. That's the pernicious myth of--well, most of modern society, but very much including tech. The unconscious and conscious biases of the first movers have shaped it since day one, and we still see the effects today.
- yarrel 11y ago
  The first movers in programming were women.
  - eropple 11y ago
    That's somewhat correct on its face--though, as krapp notes, a little disingenuous--but, more importantly, is wholly irrelevant to the growth of tech as an industry, which is what I pretty specifically pointed at rather than at "programming" (as if a trade skill was the point here in the first place). But you knew all that. So why'd you post that?
  - krapp 11y ago
    The first movers in programming were the military, who assigned the role of 'programmer' to women because it was considered, not to put too fine a point on it, women's work.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Yep. As was Margaret Hamilton who invented both software engineering and fault-tolerant, hardware-software design. Bunch more on top of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist... Been my favorite for the last year or two since a friend told me about her work doing... basically much of what I was trying to do lol. Her software resume kicks much of Silicon Valley's ass. Yet, many wouldn't hire women and certainly wouldn't know one invented the engineering aspect of their field after another invented programming. ;) Many similarly impressive women in tech and colleges that face uphill battle getting good jobs. Messed up... Note: Her USL and 001 Toolkit handled specification, semi-automated design, automated coding, automated testing, and handled SCM issues for arbitrary platforms. You could say she was the first "full-stack" engineer with a broader definition of full-stack. ;) 001/USL are really weird so one line of my research is doing same with a user-friendly, specification and implementation language + extensive metaprogramming + good heuristics. Racket or RED are likely implementation languages when I get the concepts all together.
forgottenpass 11y ago
A guy on Hacker News posted a theory that discrimination in startup culture came from it's connection to MBA-culture, not nerd-culture. You might enjoy hearing his take on it: Comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942837 The blog post linked to in the comment https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/vc-istan-8-the-damaso-effect/ https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/vc-istan-8-t...
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  I don't think this analysis stands up to the observation that many non-SV nerdcultures have severe problems genderwise. (Also it should be pointed out that that dude got a ban (not a hellban or slowban, a real ban) from this forum for a gender-based insult)
  - youreanidiot 11y ago
    Also it should be pointed out that that dude got a ban (not a hellban or slowban, a real ban) from this forum for a gender-based insult It wasn't. It was the word "queynte", and he's said equally or more vicious things about men. Dan G interpreted it as "cunt" as a pretext for banning someone who has, for years, opposed YC's economic interest of spreading bad information about the startup career. He may be extreme in his focus on justice but he's not a sexist.

Everything is a meritocracy until the bankers arrive. Well, the bankers have arrived.

by mbesto 11y ago

Everything is a meritocracy until the bankers arrive. Well, the bankers have arrived.

But it was never a meritocracy. That's the pernicious myth of--well, most of modern society, but very much including tech. The unconscious and conscious biases of the first movers have shaped it since day one, and we still see the effects today.

yarrel 11y ago
The first movers in programming were women.
- eropple 11y ago
  That's somewhat correct on its face--though, as krapp notes, a little disingenuous--but, more importantly, is wholly irrelevant to the growth of tech as an industry, which is what I pretty specifically pointed at rather than at "programming" (as if a trade skill was the point here in the first place). But you knew all that. So why'd you post that?
- krapp 11y ago
  The first movers in programming were the military, who assigned the role of 'programmer' to women because it was considered, not to put too fine a point on it, women's work.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Yep. As was Margaret Hamilton who invented both software engineering and fault-tolerant, hardware-software design. Bunch more on top of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hamilton_%28scientist... Been my favorite for the last year or two since a friend told me about her work doing... basically much of what I was trying to do lol. Her software resume kicks much of Silicon Valley's ass. Yet, many wouldn't hire women and certainly wouldn't know one invented the engineering aspect of their field after another invented programming. ;) Many similarly impressive women in tech and colleges that face uphill battle getting good jobs. Messed up... Note: Her USL and 001 Toolkit handled specification, semi-automated design, automated coding, automated testing, and handled SCM issues for arbitrary platforms. You could say she was the first "full-stack" engineer with a broader definition of full-stack. ;) 001/USL are really weird so one line of my research is doing same with a user-friendly, specification and implementation language + extensive metaprogramming + good heuristics. Racket or RED are likely implementation languages when I get the concepts all together.

forgottenpass 11y ago

A guy on Hacker News posted a theory that discrimination in startup culture came from it's connection to MBA-culture, not nerd-culture. You might enjoy hearing his take on it: Comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9942837 The blog post linked to in the comment https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/vc-istan-8-the-damaso-effect/ https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/vc-istan-8-t...

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
I don't think this analysis stands up to the observation that many non-SV nerdcultures have severe problems genderwise. (Also it should be pointed out that that dude got a ban (not a hellban or slowban, a real ban) from this forum for a gender-based insult)
- youreanidiot 11y ago
  Also it should be pointed out that that dude got a ban (not a hellban or slowban, a real ban) from this forum for a gender-based insult It wasn't. It was the word "queynte", and he's said equally or more vicious things about men. Dan G interpreted it as "cunt" as a pretext for banning someone who has, for years, opposed YC's economic interest of spreading bad information about the startup career. He may be extreme in his focus on justice but he's not a sexist.