7 ms·

Brazilian wasp venom kills cancer cells by opening them up

190 points by caio1982 11y ago

stephengillie 11y ago
> MP1 interacts with lipids that are abnormally distributed on the surface of cancer cells, creating gaping holes that allow molecules crucial for cell function to leak out. This is fascinating. As IANAMD, I had no idea there were physical (or nanomechanical?) differences between normal and cancer cells. This sounds like a huge number of mistakes, maybe from the extremely rapid divisions. So is Polybia-MP1 another game changer in the Cancer world?
- venomsnake 11y ago
  We have thousands effective ways to kill cancer cells. Making sure the host survives is the tricky part.
  - jMyles 11y ago
    https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/
- jane_is_here 11y ago
  "So is Polybia-MP1 another game changer in the Cancer world?" No. HN has been suckered yet again by a PR release. These are similar to and around as reliable as the PR releases that claim to revolutionise the internet, cars, plastics, toothpaste or condoms.
qCOVET 11y ago
Since we are on the subject of cancer - allow me to pen down a few thoughts for those interested in the subject. (a) You already know that ...Cancer could be caused by hundreds of different mutations in the genome that would disrupt a cell cycle control pathway. Which means it becomes increasingly difficult to find a single bullet solution to all cancers. (b) You already know that ... Even if you find a way to target cancer cells, how do you differentiate between good cells vs. bad cells (c) You may kindda know that... Researchers are trying hard to find specific markers on the cancer cell membrane, to differentiate them from good cells and target them for destruction. The WASP venom thing is another idea ... but venoms have been known to target calcium/calmodulin channels. So nothing too fancy. (d) You may not know that... The most promising research in cancer therapy is to disrupt metabolic pathways of cancer cells. You see, doesn't matter what pathway led to the cause of cancer ... but they all need food to divide. If you could terminate their food supply, disrupt a metabolic pathway .. then there is a chance of stopping them...as a generic bullet for all cancers, irrespective of what mutation caused it. Furthermore, the metabolic pathway of cancer cells and normal cells are distinguishable. Read more: Warburg effect and a paper that was published this year: http://www.news-medical.net/news/20150626/SLU-researchers-find-way-to-stop-growth-of-cancer-cells-by-targeting-the-Warburg-Effect.aspx http://www.news-medical.net/news/20150626/SLU-researchers-fi...
- kinj28 11y ago
  wouldnt a cell evolve to find food from other sources?
  - anon4 11y ago
    I'm guessing it doesn't have enough food stored (if any) to carry on dividing and mutating once you've stopped its food supply.
  - drmilsurp 11y ago
    if by evolve you mean secrete VEGF to stimulate vascularization and thereby bring food from more sources, sure
  - FeepingCreature 11y ago
    As opposed to diseases, cancer is new every time. If somebody's cancer cells evolve to become resistant to some treatment, this resistance cannot spread to other people. As such, you're only looking at evolution in a comparatively small ecosystem and over comparatively short times. So "yes, but not necessarily".
- sklogic 11y ago
  Was this "WASP venom" typo intentional?
  - iLoch 11y ago
    No sir this is legit Brazillian White Anglo Saxon Protestant venom.
- rogeryu 11y ago
  (e) You may not know that ... cancer prevalence depends heavily on vitamin D levels. People living around the equator have a 40-60% lesser chance of getting cancer than people living in the US, Canada or Europe. This is even true for people living in Florida. We don't get enough UV-B from the sun, not like centuries ago when we didn't have to work indoors and didn't use sunscreen. People with dark or darker skin have an even bigger risk. The risk of getting nonmelanoma skin cancer from UV-B is relatively low, and it's easy to treat. Melanoma skin cancer is dangerous, but not related to sun exposure. Taking vitamin D using pills or getting enough sun exposure (without sunscreen) without getting burnt may be the cheapest and most easy way to reduce cancer risk. Below some links, these about breast cancer. AFAIK these numbers are similar for other cancers like liver, lung, colon, etc. http://bigthink.com/devil-in-the-data/vitamin-d-sun-and-cancer http://bigthink.com/devil-in-the-data/vitamin-d-sun-and-canc... http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/26/health/he-explain26 http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/26/health/he-explain26 http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc05/papers/pap1468.pdf http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc05/papers/p... Or Google that yourself: https://www.google.com/webhp?q=cancer+rates+equator https://www.google.com/webhp?q=cancer+rates+equator
Jun8 11y ago
What I don't understand is: how did they first think of testing this venom for its anticancer properties? Do researchers test many different antimicrobial substances, Edison fashion, to see which kills cancer cells?
- sjg007 11y ago
  Yep.
  - ddoscampaign 11y ago
    Any idea how this is done at scale, on C cancer cell lines x W compounds?
    - drmilsurp 11y ago
      one way is 3D colony formation assay, 96 or more WxC combinations at a time depending on format and replication requirements
jane_is_here 11y ago
Read the primary source. Abstract: http://www.cell.com/biophysj/abstract/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 http://www.cell.com/biophysj/abstract/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 Full text: http://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 http://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 Please do not go off on a tangent after reading brain dead PR releases meant for the masses. These are the scientific world's equivalent of clickbait and have little connection to the actual study.
stevoski 11y ago
I wish the "novel discovery/technique against cancer" news items would stop appearing on hacker news. They are a staple of mainstream media, always with super promising headlines, but with nothing but a far-fetched, vague promise behind them. As far as I can tell, they are from press releases from research centers who need to get some media attention to secure their future funding. But they are never actually cures for cancer.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  As someone who does not follow the field, I enjoy knowing about new things people are working on, even if they never pan out. It helps expand the horizon of what my mind can conceive as possible.
- noonespecial 11y ago
  There's a "Darmok and Jalad" xkcd for this phenomenon. Its #1217. Maybe we should just shrug and say, "hmf, just another 1217".
- MrJagil 11y ago
  I feel like I need some arguments and examples pertaining to this specific article to swallow your objection.
- DennisP 11y ago
  We haven't "cured cancer" but the death rates for many varieties are going down. One headline this year was for an immune system therapy against advanced melanoma, which is dramatically lowering death rates in trials; I have a neighbor who's actually getting that therapy.
Aoyagi 11y ago
I keep hearing about these almost miraculous cures, what would my ontology office (if I had cancer) tell me if I asked for Brazilian wasp venom treatment?
- task_queue 11y ago
  "No, go to Brazil." No one wants to lose their job or freedom if something goes wrong when you guinea pig a patient.
- bvm 11y ago
  "you're looking for science -> disease -> treatment -> oncology, down the corridor"
  - logicallee 11y ago
    This is a really funny comment!
- jane_is_here 11y ago
  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/
  - Aoyagi 11y ago
    Hm, I've only just noticed it. I blame my boss for confusing me by using the word "ontology" too much recently.
astroteller 11y ago
In other news, soap (alcohol too!) kills cancer cells by lysing their cell membranes.
agnes90 11y ago
That is very interesting! I'd definitely like to read more of this stuff as it develops. So many potential treatments out there. Are there particular cancers that these venoms seem good to tackle, or do they seem to be effective universally? http://www.trainingintambaram.in/web-designing-training-in-chennai.html http://www.trainingintambaram.in/web-designing-training-in-c...
baldfat 11y ago
September is Childhood Cancer Month. I lost my sister to Brain Cancer in 1996 when she was 15 I lost my son to Bone Cancer in 2013 when he was 12 Most Cancer Charities give penny or so to Childhood Cancer research and Federal Research Grants give 4 cents to the dollar to Childhood Cancer research. In the last 20 years only 2 new drugs have been approved till a 3rd this spring. St Baldrick's and Childhood Cancer Research Fund give the majority of their funds to research and St Baldrick's actually help find the first new treatment in years with a 30% better results! http://www.stbaldricks.org/blog/post/breaking-news-the-fda-approves-childhood-cancer-drug/ http://www.stbaldricks.org/blog/post/breaking-news-the-fda-a...
- brianbreslin 11y ago
  First off, I am sorry for your loss, cannot begin to understand how it must feel. Secondly, that is incredible about the new drug, it is crazy it takes that long to find more possible treatments for such a widespread cause of death. What are some more effective ways we can give or help that won't be eaten up by overhead of the charities?
  - smt88 11y ago
    Cancer is a widespread cause of death, but unfortunately "cancer" is a very broad category. Just because two illnesses are both classified as cancer doesn't mean they'll respond to the same drugs/treatment. We're finding a lot more success with tailored approaches than creating new drugs. I think one of the most promising approaches to treatment is discussed here: http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_rese... I have a friend who works at American Cancer Society. I asked him the best place to donate to, and he said Livestrong Foundation. I don't know his reasoning, but he's brilliant and incredibly knowledgeable about cancer.
- martincmartin 11y ago
  I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my wife a few years back, and read that losing a child is generally harder than losing a spouse. I can't imagine someone having to go through something harder than what I went through. And you lost a sibling earlier too. Although I don't know you, I do sincerely wish you strength, and that things get better for you.

190 points by caio1982 11y ago

> MP1 interacts with lipids that are abnormally distributed on the surface of cancer cells, creating gaping holes that allow molecules crucial for cell function to leak out. This is fascinating. As IANAMD, I had no idea there were physical (or nanomechanical?) differences between normal and cancer cells. This sounds like a huge number of mistakes, maybe from the extremely rapid divisions. So is Polybia-MP1 another game changer in the Cancer world?

venomsnake 11y ago
We have thousands effective ways to kill cancer cells. Making sure the host survives is the tricky part.
- jMyles 11y ago
  https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/
jane_is_here 11y ago
"So is Polybia-MP1 another game changer in the Cancer world?" No. HN has been suckered yet again by a PR release. These are similar to and around as reliable as the PR releases that claim to revolutionise the internet, cars, plastics, toothpaste or condoms.

qCOVET 11y ago

Since we are on the subject of cancer - allow me to pen down a few thoughts for those interested in the subject. (a) You already know that ...Cancer could be caused by hundreds of different mutations in the genome that would disrupt a cell cycle control pathway. Which means it becomes increasingly difficult to find a single bullet solution to all cancers. (b) You already know that ... Even if you find a way to target cancer cells, how do you differentiate between good cells vs. bad cells (c) You may kindda know that... Researchers are trying hard to find specific markers on the cancer cell membrane, to differentiate them from good cells and target them for destruction. The WASP venom thing is another idea ... but venoms have been known to target calcium/calmodulin channels. So nothing too fancy. (d) You may not know that... The most promising research in cancer therapy is to disrupt metabolic pathways of cancer cells. You see, doesn't matter what pathway led to the cause of cancer ... but they all need food to divide. If you could terminate their food supply, disrupt a metabolic pathway .. then there is a chance of stopping them...as a generic bullet for all cancers, irrespective of what mutation caused it. Furthermore, the metabolic pathway of cancer cells and normal cells are distinguishable. Read more: Warburg effect and a paper that was published this year: http://www.news-medical.net/news/20150626/SLU-researchers-find-way-to-stop-growth-of-cancer-cells-by-targeting-the-Warburg-Effect.aspx http://www.news-medical.net/news/20150626/SLU-researchers-fi...

kinj28 11y ago
wouldnt a cell evolve to find food from other sources?
- anon4 11y ago
  I'm guessing it doesn't have enough food stored (if any) to carry on dividing and mutating once you've stopped its food supply.
- drmilsurp 11y ago
  if by evolve you mean secrete VEGF to stimulate vascularization and thereby bring food from more sources, sure
- FeepingCreature 11y ago
  As opposed to diseases, cancer is new every time. If somebody's cancer cells evolve to become resistant to some treatment, this resistance cannot spread to other people. As such, you're only looking at evolution in a comparatively small ecosystem and over comparatively short times. So "yes, but not necessarily".
sklogic 11y ago
Was this "WASP venom" typo intentional?
- iLoch 11y ago
  No sir this is legit Brazillian White Anglo Saxon Protestant venom.
rogeryu 11y ago
(e) You may not know that ... cancer prevalence depends heavily on vitamin D levels. People living around the equator have a 40-60% lesser chance of getting cancer than people living in the US, Canada or Europe. This is even true for people living in Florida. We don't get enough UV-B from the sun, not like centuries ago when we didn't have to work indoors and didn't use sunscreen. People with dark or darker skin have an even bigger risk. The risk of getting nonmelanoma skin cancer from UV-B is relatively low, and it's easy to treat. Melanoma skin cancer is dangerous, but not related to sun exposure. Taking vitamin D using pills or getting enough sun exposure (without sunscreen) without getting burnt may be the cheapest and most easy way to reduce cancer risk. Below some links, these about breast cancer. AFAIK these numbers are similar for other cancers like liver, lung, colon, etc. http://bigthink.com/devil-in-the-data/vitamin-d-sun-and-cancer http://bigthink.com/devil-in-the-data/vitamin-d-sun-and-canc... http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/26/health/he-explain26 http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/26/health/he-explain26 http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc05/papers/pap1468.pdf http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc05/papers/p... Or Google that yourself: https://www.google.com/webhp?q=cancer+rates+equator https://www.google.com/webhp?q=cancer+rates+equator

Jun8 11y ago

What I don't understand is: how did they first think of testing this venom for its anticancer properties? Do researchers test many different antimicrobial substances, Edison fashion, to see which kills cancer cells?

sjg007 11y ago
Yep.
- ddoscampaign 11y ago
  Any idea how this is done at scale, on C cancer cell lines x W compounds?
  - drmilsurp 11y ago
    one way is 3D colony formation assay, 96 or more WxC combinations at a time depending on format and replication requirements

jane_is_here 11y ago

Read the primary source. Abstract: http://www.cell.com/biophysj/abstract/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 http://www.cell.com/biophysj/abstract/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 Full text: http://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 http://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(15)00768-7 Please do not go off on a tangent after reading brain dead PR releases meant for the masses. These are the scientific world's equivalent of clickbait and have little connection to the actual study.

stevoski 11y ago

I wish the "novel discovery/technique against cancer" news items would stop appearing on hacker news. They are a staple of mainstream media, always with super promising headlines, but with nothing but a far-fetched, vague promise behind them. As far as I can tell, they are from press releases from research centers who need to get some media attention to secure their future funding. But they are never actually cures for cancer.

nitrogen 11y ago
As someone who does not follow the field, I enjoy knowing about new things people are working on, even if they never pan out. It helps expand the horizon of what my mind can conceive as possible.
noonespecial 11y ago
There's a "Darmok and Jalad" xkcd for this phenomenon. Its #1217. Maybe we should just shrug and say, "hmf, just another 1217".
MrJagil 11y ago
I feel like I need some arguments and examples pertaining to this specific article to swallow your objection.
DennisP 11y ago
We haven't "cured cancer" but the death rates for many varieties are going down. One headline this year was for an immune system therapy against advanced melanoma, which is dramatically lowering death rates in trials; I have a neighbor who's actually getting that therapy.

Aoyagi 11y ago

I keep hearing about these almost miraculous cures, what would my ontology office (if I had cancer) tell me if I asked for Brazilian wasp venom treatment?

task_queue 11y ago
"No, go to Brazil." No one wants to lose their job or freedom if something goes wrong when you guinea pig a patient.
bvm 11y ago
"you're looking for science -> disease -> treatment -> oncology, down the corridor"
- logicallee 11y ago
  This is a really funny comment!
jane_is_here 11y ago
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/
- Aoyagi 11y ago
  Hm, I've only just noticed it. I blame my boss for confusing me by using the word "ontology" too much recently.

astroteller 11y ago

In other news, soap (alcohol too!) kills cancer cells by lysing their cell membranes.

agnes90 11y ago

That is very interesting! I'd definitely like to read more of this stuff as it develops. So many potential treatments out there. Are there particular cancers that these venoms seem good to tackle, or do they seem to be effective universally? http://www.trainingintambaram.in/web-designing-training-in-chennai.html http://www.trainingintambaram.in/web-designing-training-in-c...

baldfat 11y ago

September is Childhood Cancer Month. I lost my sister to Brain Cancer in 1996 when she was 15 I lost my son to Bone Cancer in 2013 when he was 12 Most Cancer Charities give penny or so to Childhood Cancer research and Federal Research Grants give 4 cents to the dollar to Childhood Cancer research. In the last 20 years only 2 new drugs have been approved till a 3rd this spring. St Baldrick's and Childhood Cancer Research Fund give the majority of their funds to research and St Baldrick's actually help find the first new treatment in years with a 30% better results! http://www.stbaldricks.org/blog/post/breaking-news-the-fda-approves-childhood-cancer-drug/ http://www.stbaldricks.org/blog/post/breaking-news-the-fda-a...

brianbreslin 11y ago
First off, I am sorry for your loss, cannot begin to understand how it must feel. Secondly, that is incredible about the new drug, it is crazy it takes that long to find more possible treatments for such a widespread cause of death. What are some more effective ways we can give or help that won't be eaten up by overhead of the charities?
- smt88 11y ago
  Cancer is a widespread cause of death, but unfortunately "cancer" is a very broad category. Just because two illnesses are both classified as cancer doesn't mean they'll respond to the same drugs/treatment. We're finding a lot more success with tailored approaches than creating new drugs. I think one of the most promising approaches to treatment is discussed here: http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_rese... I have a friend who works at American Cancer Society. I asked him the best place to donate to, and he said Livestrong Foundation. I don't know his reasoning, but he's brilliant and incredibly knowledgeable about cancer.
martincmartin 11y ago
I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my wife a few years back, and read that losing a child is generally harder than losing a spouse. I can't imagine someone having to go through something harder than what I went through. And you lost a sibling earlier too. Although I don't know you, I do sincerely wish you strength, and that things get better for you.