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The fact that they're stuck might be part of the fun. It's usually easiest, and frankly less intimidating/annoying, to follow a simple protocol: 1. Ask them

The fact that they're stuck might be part of the fun. It's usually easiest, and frankly less intimidating/annoying, to follow a simple protocol: 1. Ask them if they have a second to chat (if no, leave them alone for a while). 2. Ask them what they're working on, and what they enjoy about it, and what is hard (if they don't want to talk about it, leave them alone for a while). 3. Ask them if they'd mind a suggestion about what they're trying (if they don't want a suggestion, leave them alone for a while). This may also be in the form of a leading question. It's really not hard to do that without falling into one of those two categories. Just ask quietly and politely, and respect their space. This isn't rocket science. EDIT: Also, some of my sibling commenters and even my parent comment have language that suggests some grumpiness over gender or feminism or whatever. If you're there to help with tech, none of that matters, so don't bring it up. Just ignore it and focus on the tech--doing anything else is, by definition, being distracting. Furthermore, complaining about it just makes you look silly.

Kalium 11y ago
Maybe it's just me, but "Do you have a second to chat?" sounds very little like "You look like you could use some help and I may be able to offer relevant expertise in the interests of addressing your apparent problem". From where I'm sitting, the former sounds like it's so unlikely to lead to the latter that it may not be worth engaging with.
- angersock 11y ago
  That's precisely the point. :) Take at your statement, and pretend a frustrated/easily embarrassed/grumpy person is hearing it: "You look like you could use some help" --> "You look like you don't know what you're doing/you look frustrated" "I may be able to offer relevant expertise" --> "I assume that I both have something to offer and that you are having a problem of this particular way/shape/form" "in the interests of addressing your apparent problem" --> "whatever you're working on is clearly broken, and needs fixing" My formulation is intentionally very gentle and indirect, precisely to avoid any of the above misinterpretations. Working with people experienced in the field or who are known to be open to communication, obviously, we want to be more direct; for a novice, or for somebody who is looking for any excuse to take offense at what you're saying (perhaps because they're frustrated at their work and want to vent at something), it is useful to take a lighter touch.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    I should hope that's precisely not the point unless you just want to frustrate people more. The approach you describe is, in my considered opinion, possibly indirect to the point that could be by some considered to be influenced by Dadaism. Let's model a hypothetical person focused on a problem they're struggling with: "Hey, do you have a second to chat?" --> "I want to waste your time with spurious bullshit when you're clearly eyeball-deep in something." Might I suggest a different formulation that presumes less about the subject? Or perhaps giving up entirely? Personally, I've accepted that there is not and cannot be any uniformly acceptable way to approach a stranger and offer assistance that does not risk backlash or misinterpretation.
    - kaitai 11y ago
      But then the answer is, "Nope, working hard!" spurious bullshit avoided, algorithm deployed successfully.
      - Kalium 11y ago
        And then you and your space are attacked publicly as being a place where nobody respects focus, men are constantly approaching women, and so on. Or someone blows up after being quietly and kindly asked that for the fifth time in two hours by well-intentioned people who are unfortunately less than omniscient and an article entitled "Woman harassed in hackerspace by brogrammers!" hits Jezebel. Communications failures combined with the human capacity for reinterpretation are a bottomless pit of potential badness. Maybe I'm just more cynical about people than you.
        kaitai 11y ago
        This sounds a lot like black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking (psychology). "If I ask a woman in a hackerspace ``want to chat?'' then .... Jezebel will print horrible articles about men." "If I don't talk to the woman in a hackerspace then..... .. .. I am a horrible misogynist (?) because I am not encouraging her." From Wikipedia, "Splitting creates instability in relationships because one person can be viewed as either personified virtue or personified vice at different times, depending on whether they gratify the subject's needs or frustrate them. This, along with similar oscillations in the experience and appraisal of the self, leads to chaotic and unstable relationship patterns, identity diffusion, and mood swings." I think sometimes folks get too invested in how to talk to women in tech. Do your best and move on. No one is going to fix this problem individually, and heightening every interaction into a chance for a Jezebel article is counterproductive. Not unless you are Iggy Azalea are you going to get Jezebel hate every time you move, so relax a little!
kaitai 11y ago
A great algorithmic approach. If you don't like "Do you have a second to chat?" consider "Want to talk about what you're working on?"

Kalium 11y ago

Maybe it's just me, but "Do you have a second to chat?" sounds very little like "You look like you could use some help and I may be able to offer relevant expertise in the interests of addressing your apparent problem". From where I'm sitting, the former sounds like it's so unlikely to lead to the latter that it may not be worth engaging with.

angersock 11y ago
That's precisely the point. :) Take at your statement, and pretend a frustrated/easily embarrassed/grumpy person is hearing it: "You look like you could use some help" --> "You look like you don't know what you're doing/you look frustrated" "I may be able to offer relevant expertise" --> "I assume that I both have something to offer and that you are having a problem of this particular way/shape/form" "in the interests of addressing your apparent problem" --> "whatever you're working on is clearly broken, and needs fixing" My formulation is intentionally very gentle and indirect, precisely to avoid any of the above misinterpretations. Working with people experienced in the field or who are known to be open to communication, obviously, we want to be more direct; for a novice, or for somebody who is looking for any excuse to take offense at what you're saying (perhaps because they're frustrated at their work and want to vent at something), it is useful to take a lighter touch.
- Kalium 11y ago
  I should hope that's precisely not the point unless you just want to frustrate people more. The approach you describe is, in my considered opinion, possibly indirect to the point that could be by some considered to be influenced by Dadaism. Let's model a hypothetical person focused on a problem they're struggling with: "Hey, do you have a second to chat?" --> "I want to waste your time with spurious bullshit when you're clearly eyeball-deep in something." Might I suggest a different formulation that presumes less about the subject? Or perhaps giving up entirely? Personally, I've accepted that there is not and cannot be any uniformly acceptable way to approach a stranger and offer assistance that does not risk backlash or misinterpretation.
  - kaitai 11y ago
    But then the answer is, "Nope, working hard!" spurious bullshit avoided, algorithm deployed successfully.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      And then you and your space are attacked publicly as being a place where nobody respects focus, men are constantly approaching women, and so on. Or someone blows up after being quietly and kindly asked that for the fifth time in two hours by well-intentioned people who are unfortunately less than omniscient and an article entitled "Woman harassed in hackerspace by brogrammers!" hits Jezebel. Communications failures combined with the human capacity for reinterpretation are a bottomless pit of potential badness. Maybe I'm just more cynical about people than you.
      - kaitai 11y ago
        This sounds a lot like black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking (psychology). "If I ask a woman in a hackerspace ``want to chat?'' then .... Jezebel will print horrible articles about men." "If I don't talk to the woman in a hackerspace then..... .. .. I am a horrible misogynist (?) because I am not encouraging her." From Wikipedia, "Splitting creates instability in relationships because one person can be viewed as either personified virtue or personified vice at different times, depending on whether they gratify the subject's needs or frustrate them. This, along with similar oscillations in the experience and appraisal of the self, leads to chaotic and unstable relationship patterns, identity diffusion, and mood swings." I think sometimes folks get too invested in how to talk to women in tech. Do your best and move on. No one is going to fix this problem individually, and heightening every interaction into a chance for a Jezebel article is counterproductive. Not unless you are Iggy Azalea are you going to get Jezebel hate every time you move, so relax a little!

kaitai 11y ago

A great algorithmic approach. If you don't like "Do you have a second to chat?" consider "Want to talk about what you're working on?"