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> University of Oxford says the fragments were produced between the years 568 A.D. and 645 A.D. Muhammad is generally believed to have lived between 570 A.D. an

> University of Oxford says the fragments were produced between the years 568 A.D. and 645 A.D. Muhammad is generally believed to have lived between 570 A.D. and 632 A.D. Without a narrower range, it's ridiculous to say that it predates Muhammad. At most it predates the first known, fully assembled Qur'an from 653CE. (Aside: I realize this story comes from Fox News but its listing of dates as "Anno Domini" is in poor taste, given the subject matter.)

fluidcruft 11y ago
Oh, please. CE means precisely AD but with a gloss of PC lipstick. Next we're going to hear that uttering AD instead of CE triggers those of weak constitution.
- gtk40 11y ago
  Older works I have seen referred to CE as meaning "Christian Era" anyway. I don't know if that predates "Common Era" or not, though.
  - gilgoomesh 11y ago
    The term was originally "Vulgar Era" (meaning "the one that the people use", as opposed to the aristocracy which dated from the reign of various kings). Jewish academics started using "Common Era" to mean the same thing as "Vulgar Era" in the mid 19th century. "Christian Era" has never been used academically. It presumably came about due to people guessing at the "CE" in academic texts". It's not wrong though, so there's no problem. Also, unlike "Year of our Lord", it doesn't align the author with Christianity; it is merely factual.
baldfat 11y ago
Poor scholarship has never stopped anyone. As a theological masters degree student and PhD candidate I have always been just blown away at how poorly people do their work. In terms of years AD isn't really disrespectful the CE (Common Era) never really caught on and it was the same years. Muslim year numbers are in AH (1 AH is when the prophet moved to Medina) so 1 AH Day 1 is 16 July 622. So the years would be 54 BAH to 23 AH. This range means that it goes with our history from the time. As far as history goes int he last 100 years we have gotten very good at dates in our history and especially around the 6th Century. Bogus reporting on bogus scholarship.
vixen99 11y ago
Why poor taste? As is common knowledge A.D. is an abbreviation for Anno Domini. You might as well say that calling Muhammamad 'The prophet' is in poor taste. For most people in the Western world the year zero is an arbitrary number and not understood as year of 'Our Lord' nor is Muhammad regarded as a prophet. Both are aids to communication not exegesis. Not living in the US, the reference to Fox News is a bit lost on me. Perhaps it's equivalent to the seemingly obligatory sideswipe at the British Daily Mail on the part of some folk. Establishes their credentials, I guess.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > Perhaps it's equivalent to the seemingly obligatory sideswipe at the British Daily Mail on the part of some folk. The Daily Mail carries comments from people wanting refugees to be shot (a variety of ammunition is suggested, a few only want rubber bullets, a few want live rounds) or tear gassed, or sprayed with sewage. Recently some bloggers took anti Jewish Nazi propaganda and changed the word "Jew" to "migrant" and posted it to the DM comments sections. Readers upvoted those comments. DM regularly has creepy articles about underage girls. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/all-grown-up-sexing-up-the-internet-with-the-daily-mail http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/all-grown-up-sexing-up-the-in... The Daily Mail is scum.
- tbirdz 11y ago
  There is no year zero, 1 BC is followed by 1 AD (1 BCE is followed by 1 CE.)
- gilgoomesh 11y ago
  Fox News are unashamedly biased towards Christianity. The poor taste is because it is an article about one religion's prophet but uses a date suffix which effectively translates as "our God is Jesus". It is difficult to be academic about the subject matter if your word choice is highly partisan. This is why academics use "Common Era", aka CE.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Using CE -- either as "Common Era" or "Christian Era" -- dating from the same origin date as A.D. (and as a synonym for A.D.) is just as much of a Christian-origin and Christian-centric system as A.D., and is several hundred years old. The idea that it is somehow more "neutral" and appropriate for academic when compared to A.D. is a fairly recent idea that ignores the history, origin, basis, and meaning (which directly holds Christianity as the norm) of the label.
hackuser 11y ago
You omitted a significant phrase > The Times of London reported ... That's a News Corp. (Fox, Wall St Journal, etc.) publication. Unfortunately it is no surprise that they might try to undermine people who believe in Islam. News Corp's open religious prejudice, and propaganda, have a long track record.

fluidcruft 11y ago

Oh, please. CE means precisely AD but with a gloss of PC lipstick. Next we're going to hear that uttering AD instead of CE triggers those of weak constitution.

gtk40 11y ago
Older works I have seen referred to CE as meaning "Christian Era" anyway. I don't know if that predates "Common Era" or not, though.
- gilgoomesh 11y ago
  The term was originally "Vulgar Era" (meaning "the one that the people use", as opposed to the aristocracy which dated from the reign of various kings). Jewish academics started using "Common Era" to mean the same thing as "Vulgar Era" in the mid 19th century. "Christian Era" has never been used academically. It presumably came about due to people guessing at the "CE" in academic texts". It's not wrong though, so there's no problem. Also, unlike "Year of our Lord", it doesn't align the author with Christianity; it is merely factual.

baldfat 11y ago

Poor scholarship has never stopped anyone. As a theological masters degree student and PhD candidate I have always been just blown away at how poorly people do their work. In terms of years AD isn't really disrespectful the CE (Common Era) never really caught on and it was the same years. Muslim year numbers are in AH (1 AH is when the prophet moved to Medina) so 1 AH Day 1 is 16 July 622. So the years would be 54 BAH to 23 AH. This range means that it goes with our history from the time. As far as history goes int he last 100 years we have gotten very good at dates in our history and especially around the 6th Century. Bogus reporting on bogus scholarship.

vixen99 11y ago

Why poor taste? As is common knowledge A.D. is an abbreviation for Anno Domini. You might as well say that calling Muhammamad 'The prophet' is in poor taste. For most people in the Western world the year zero is an arbitrary number and not understood as year of 'Our Lord' nor is Muhammad regarded as a prophet. Both are aids to communication not exegesis. Not living in the US, the reference to Fox News is a bit lost on me. Perhaps it's equivalent to the seemingly obligatory sideswipe at the British Daily Mail on the part of some folk. Establishes their credentials, I guess.

DanBC 11y ago
> Perhaps it's equivalent to the seemingly obligatory sideswipe at the British Daily Mail on the part of some folk. The Daily Mail carries comments from people wanting refugees to be shot (a variety of ammunition is suggested, a few only want rubber bullets, a few want live rounds) or tear gassed, or sprayed with sewage. Recently some bloggers took anti Jewish Nazi propaganda and changed the word "Jew" to "migrant" and posted it to the DM comments sections. Readers upvoted those comments. DM regularly has creepy articles about underage girls. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/all-grown-up-sexing-up-the-internet-with-the-daily-mail http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/all-grown-up-sexing-up-the-in... The Daily Mail is scum.
tbirdz 11y ago
There is no year zero, 1 BC is followed by 1 AD (1 BCE is followed by 1 CE.)
gilgoomesh 11y ago
Fox News are unashamedly biased towards Christianity. The poor taste is because it is an article about one religion's prophet but uses a date suffix which effectively translates as "our God is Jesus". It is difficult to be academic about the subject matter if your word choice is highly partisan. This is why academics use "Common Era", aka CE.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Using CE -- either as "Common Era" or "Christian Era" -- dating from the same origin date as A.D. (and as a synonym for A.D.) is just as much of a Christian-origin and Christian-centric system as A.D., and is several hundred years old. The idea that it is somehow more "neutral" and appropriate for academic when compared to A.D. is a fairly recent idea that ignores the history, origin, basis, and meaning (which directly holds Christianity as the norm) of the label.

hackuser 11y ago

You omitted a significant phrase > The Times of London reported ... That's a News Corp. (Fox, Wall St Journal, etc.) publication. Unfortunately it is no surprise that they might try to undermine people who believe in Islam. News Corp's open religious prejudice, and propaganda, have a long track record.