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I agree completely. I also always laugh at those suckers standing in line at the grocery store. The customer experience of just picking out my Mountain Dew and

by chasing 11y ago

I agree completely. I also always laugh at those suckers standing in line at the grocery store. The customer experience of just picking out my Mountain Dew and ice cream sandwich and just walking straight out of the store without paying -- it's cheap, it's easy. You don't have to deal with pesky middle-men trying to take their cut. Astonishing. Such comfort.

fpgeek 11y ago
Sigh. I was hoping you were going for an analogy with self-checkout. That would have neatly and effectively pointed at the missing piece of the puzzle. Instead you went for the cheap moralizing, which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - sp332 11y ago
    Netflix has an extremely limited selection. Pirate Bay has much better coverage. seer's point is that there's plenty of room for improvement in the legal streaming business. There's no reason it has to be this hard for the user to give studios money. (edit) Here's a concrete example: a list of movies I have wanted to see. Only 3 of the movies on my list are available via streaming, and they are each on a different service! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MFdjnyYHGCIS8y56xOZPqKcWQ/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MF...
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    Responding to an earnest post with sarcasm is never a useful way to have a conversation, regardless how misguided the first post was.
- mcphage 11y ago
  > which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem That does a better job of describing piracy.
Drakim 11y ago
It's not just that people have to stand in line. They also have to go between a bunch of different stores since Milk producers have an exclusive contract with Walmart and Bread producers have an exclusive contract with 7-Eleven. Furthermore, after you grab your Milk, the terms and services of the Milk states you have to sit and watch an advertisement on their projector before you are allowed to leave the store.
- com2kid 11y ago
  I already cannot get certain brands of milk at my local grocery store due to distribution agreements that in some ways resemble the distribution agreements that surround digital media. I actually have had to visit 3 different major grocery stores to get the ingredients for one meal. As for the advertisement? Well there are the ones on my receipt, the "coupon" that pops out, and possibly ads plastered on the side of the product I just purchased.
  - talmand 11y ago
    > I actually have had to visit 3 different major grocery stores to get the ingredients for one meal. I'm sorry, I seriously doubt that.
- talmand 11y ago
  Or you could just stop buying the milk.
  - sp332 11y ago
    Then the milk producers would start complaining about the thieves taking all their profits, without considering that maybe their business model is turning people off from buying milk.
    - talmand 11y ago
      Let them complain, it doesn't change the fact their stupid business model is costing them money. I say let the stupid complain as they go out of business.
commentzorro 11y ago
Oh please ... spare us. You're comparing physical goods that have to be physically transport, stored, distributed, etc. Goods where some (admittedly minimal in your Mt. Dew example) scarcity is involved. The parent is talking about goods where there is effectively no (or again, minimal) cost for transport, storage, or distribution. And absolutely no scarcity. Nobody is saying we refuse to pay for digital content. We just want to pay a reasonable price. But most most important, we don't want ANY _artificial_ restrictions on transport, storage, distribution, and ESPECIALLY consumption.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Netflix doesn't have bandwidth costs?
unprepare 11y ago
In your example, the grocery store will do inventory and discovery they are short 1 ice cream sandwich and 1 mountain dew. They write the cost of those goods off as shrinkage/stolen goods. What exactly is warner bros missing at the end of the month when they do inventory? What item comes up 1 short when they go to grab it, because 1 person downloaded a copy? What do they write off on the balance sheet as shrinkage? The answer is nothing, because copyright infringement is not theft. They may have commonalities, but they are separate and distinct. If they were the same there would be no legal definition for copyright infringement, because it would be already covered under existing theft laws. I wish people would retire this ridiculous argument. There are legitimate arguments to be made against piracy without having to misrepresent the issue.
- chasing 11y ago
  > They may have commonalities, but they are separate and distinct. Yeah, that's how comparisons work. Read my comment again in light of the commonalities, not the differences. seer: "It's so much easier if you break the law." chasing: "Everything's so much easier if you break the law!" I was commenting on seer's statement by extending what I considered to be flawed logic into a situation that would expose the flaw. I could've chosen a completely unrelated crime: "I feel so sad for people forced to not drug women to sleep with them - it must be such a chore to have to get them to consent to sex." See, I'm not comparing the act of pirating a movie to rape. They're obviously very different. One is heinous and one's a fairly minor transgression, all things considered. I am commenting on the absurdity of comparing the "user experience" of doing something legally instead of breaking the law.
  - skygazer 11y ago
    It doesn't strike me as absurd at all. For various reasons, I prefer not to "jay walk," but when the cross walks are miles away, and I judge I can safely cross without them, I'll follow the what seems the most pragmatic approach to get to the other side.
seer 11y ago
The trouble is that currently there is no reasonable amount of money you can give to receive such a nice and user friendly experience as what you get with torrent sites (even more so with the popcorn app). Usually when one deals with black markets you get much worse user experience, where there is no guarantee of quality, no economy of scale effects, no standardisation. Everything is less pleasant, but you get to have your stuff cheaper than buying it officially. The paradox here is you get a bad user experience AND you pay for it. That's what I find appalling. Almost nobody who holds the contracts for these movies comes from "what value can we bring to the customer" point of view (well maybe with the exception of Netflix). Everybody does the "how much we can fleece the poor stupid people" approach, and it shows. Pirate solutions tend to compete on user experience ONLY, and there you can get a real honest competition.
- dalore 11y ago
  Actually I find you get a better user experience now using the paid services. Fire up your Amazon Fire tv and pick a movie, starts streaming. Compared with bittorrent, go find a torrent. Download it. Unpack it. Make sure it's the right format, language, subtitles etc. If not go get it again. Granted there are tools to automate it but from a purely UX pov the paid services do have a better experience.

by chasing 11y ago

fpgeek 11y ago

Sigh. I was hoping you were going for an analogy with self-checkout. That would have neatly and effectively pointed at the missing piece of the puzzle. Instead you went for the cheap moralizing, which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- sp332 11y ago
  Netflix has an extremely limited selection. Pirate Bay has much better coverage. seer's point is that there's plenty of room for improvement in the legal streaming business. There's no reason it has to be this hard for the user to give studios money. (edit) Here's a concrete example: a list of movies I have wanted to see. Only 3 of the movies on my list are available via streaming, and they are each on a different service! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MFdjnyYHGCIS8y56xOZPqKcWQ/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MF...
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Responding to an earnest post with sarcasm is never a useful way to have a conversation, regardless how misguided the first post was.
mcphage 11y ago
> which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem That does a better job of describing piracy.

Drakim 11y ago

It's not just that people have to stand in line. They also have to go between a bunch of different stores since Milk producers have an exclusive contract with Walmart and Bread producers have an exclusive contract with 7-Eleven. Furthermore, after you grab your Milk, the terms and services of the Milk states you have to sit and watch an advertisement on their projector before you are allowed to leave the store.

com2kid 11y ago
I already cannot get certain brands of milk at my local grocery store due to distribution agreements that in some ways resemble the distribution agreements that surround digital media. I actually have had to visit 3 different major grocery stores to get the ingredients for one meal. As for the advertisement? Well there are the ones on my receipt, the "coupon" that pops out, and possibly ads plastered on the side of the product I just purchased.
- talmand 11y ago
  > I actually have had to visit 3 different major grocery stores to get the ingredients for one meal. I'm sorry, I seriously doubt that.
talmand 11y ago
Or you could just stop buying the milk.
- sp332 11y ago
  Then the milk producers would start complaining about the thieves taking all their profits, without considering that maybe their business model is turning people off from buying milk.
  - talmand 11y ago
    Let them complain, it doesn't change the fact their stupid business model is costing them money. I say let the stupid complain as they go out of business.

commentzorro 11y ago

Oh please ... spare us. You're comparing physical goods that have to be physically transport, stored, distributed, etc. Goods where some (admittedly minimal in your Mt. Dew example) scarcity is involved. The parent is talking about goods where there is effectively no (or again, minimal) cost for transport, storage, or distribution. And absolutely no scarcity. Nobody is saying we refuse to pay for digital content. We just want to pay a reasonable price. But most most important, we don't want ANY _artificial_ restrictions on transport, storage, distribution, and ESPECIALLY consumption.

DanBC 11y ago
Netflix doesn't have bandwidth costs?

unprepare 11y ago

In your example, the grocery store will do inventory and discovery they are short 1 ice cream sandwich and 1 mountain dew. They write the cost of those goods off as shrinkage/stolen goods. What exactly is warner bros missing at the end of the month when they do inventory? What item comes up 1 short when they go to grab it, because 1 person downloaded a copy? What do they write off on the balance sheet as shrinkage? The answer is nothing, because copyright infringement is not theft. They may have commonalities, but they are separate and distinct. If they were the same there would be no legal definition for copyright infringement, because it would be already covered under existing theft laws. I wish people would retire this ridiculous argument. There are legitimate arguments to be made against piracy without having to misrepresent the issue.

chasing 11y ago
> They may have commonalities, but they are separate and distinct. Yeah, that's how comparisons work. Read my comment again in light of the commonalities, not the differences. seer: "It's so much easier if you break the law." chasing: "Everything's so much easier if you break the law!" I was commenting on seer's statement by extending what I considered to be flawed logic into a situation that would expose the flaw. I could've chosen a completely unrelated crime: "I feel so sad for people forced to not drug women to sleep with them - it must be such a chore to have to get them to consent to sex." See, I'm not comparing the act of pirating a movie to rape. They're obviously very different. One is heinous and one's a fairly minor transgression, all things considered. I am commenting on the absurdity of comparing the "user experience" of doing something legally instead of breaking the law.
- skygazer 11y ago
  It doesn't strike me as absurd at all. For various reasons, I prefer not to "jay walk," but when the cross walks are miles away, and I judge I can safely cross without them, I'll follow the what seems the most pragmatic approach to get to the other side.

seer 11y ago

The trouble is that currently there is no reasonable amount of money you can give to receive such a nice and user friendly experience as what you get with torrent sites (even more so with the popcorn app). Usually when one deals with black markets you get much worse user experience, where there is no guarantee of quality, no economy of scale effects, no standardisation. Everything is less pleasant, but you get to have your stuff cheaper than buying it officially. The paradox here is you get a bad user experience AND you pay for it. That's what I find appalling. Almost nobody who holds the contracts for these movies comes from "what value can we bring to the customer" point of view (well maybe with the exception of Netflix). Everybody does the "how much we can fleece the poor stupid people" approach, and it shows. Pirate solutions tend to compete on user experience ONLY, and there you can get a real honest competition.

dalore 11y ago
Actually I find you get a better user experience now using the paid services. Fire up your Amazon Fire tv and pick a movie, starts streaming. Compared with bittorrent, go find a torrent. Download it. Unpack it. Make sure it's the right format, language, subtitles etc. If not go get it again. Granted there are tools to automate it but from a purely UX pov the paid services do have a better experience.