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I think free speech can't survive the internet for a different reason - because everything is someone's backyard. You can say whatever you want in public space
by glogla 11y ago
I think free speech can't survive the internet for a different reason - because everything is someone's backyard.
You can say whatever you want in public space, but nobody has to let you write in his newspaper, post on his notice board, put passages in his book, let you speak in his living room or broadcast what you say through radio. That's okay, because there are public places.
There are no public places on the internet. You can't say what you want on Facebook, because it's Facebook's property and that's like speaking in someone's living room or in someone's newspaper. You can't say what you want on Google+, because that's Google's property. If you want to create your own message board, hosting provider can refuse you service - it's their property. If you make your own server, the ISP can refuse you service, because it's their own property.
There are no truly public spaces on the internet, everything is someone's backyard.
- jahnu 11y agoHow about the blockchain? Edit: This is a serious question. I don't understand the downvotes. Is it possible to extend the idea of the blockchain to facilitate an uncensorable area for speech?
- Joeboy 11y agohttp://twister.net.co/ http://twister.net.co/ is an attempt to do this. As far as I know it basically works, although it's obviously subject to the Network Effect.
- mirimir 11y agoIt's not hard to create workably public space. One can rent VPS for 5-10 USD per month, and pay with Bitcoin. Then setup Isso or phpBB or whatever, as a Tor hidden service. If you want more privacy from snooping by the hosting provider, lease a server from PRQ etc and use LUKS.
- the8472 11y ago> One can rent VPS Which is someone's property? So you're not addressing those concerns.
- mirimir 11y agoUnless the provider looks inside your VPS, they won't know what hidden service you're running. Privacy-friendly VPS providers won't snoop unless forced by LEA. But LEA won't know which VPS provider to force, unless your OPSEC is bad.
- the8472 11y agoThat just obfuscates things, it doesn't turn them into public property. In the end you're still relying on others letting you do your thing. E.g. the provider could disapprove of Tor in general.
- mirimir 11y agoNo, obfuscation doesn't make them public property. But with good OPSEC, one can create virtual public property on leased assets. The primary goal is to protect the provider from negative feedback, so they don't nuke your VPS. And for sure, the provider could block Tor. So then you access Tor through a VPN service. Or whatever it takes to get enough slack.
- iammyIP 11y agothats why it's important to propagate ideas for symmetric upload/download connections and self-hosting.
- btrask 11y agoGreat comment. Another aspect is that you can only rent space (hosting, domains, connection, etc.) on the internet, you can never own it. If you have a landlord they can kick you out, but if you own your own place then you have a much greater deal of freedom.
- chronial 11y agoThis depends on where you live. In Germany, the landlord can not kick you out (http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/netzquelle/awo/awi762.pdf http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/netzquelle/awo/awi762.pdf) – Government intervention can solve a lot of problems.
- mdpopescu 11y agoYou don't own any land in that sense, all governments can kick you out (see "eminent domain").
- chronial 11y agoThe solution to this has not changed. Public spaces are not public because they are not owned by anyone – they are public because they are owned by public entities. You can do that with computers and infrastructure just as much as you can do that with land and buildings. The one difference is that for land you can actually be there, whereas on the internet you will probably go through some privately owned infrastructure. The simple solution to that is encryption, the thorough solution is government regulation.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- necessity 11y agoA public space is government's backyard, the argument is moot. See China - government acts as the censor, not ISPs or companies. To favor "public spaces" it's not enough to argue that private backyards have censoring issues, but that public spaces would not have them. More so, anyone can open his or hers private space to say what he or she wishes in the internet, much more easily than IRL. For instance, if my country prohibits me to speak about certain topic, with a bit of cleverness I can anonymously rent a VPS in another country. If the issue is just a deleted Facebook post, moving out to the competition or creating your own blog is trivial. The real issue is government censorship, which is enforced by the use of force. You can easily leave a website, but not so easily leave a country.
- anon4 11y ago4chan is about as public as you can get.
- 542458 11y agoEven 4chan has topics that are (for better or worse) no-go.