8 ms·

Netflix takes gamble with Epix film cull

55 points by martin_ 11y ago

dogma1138 11y ago
Epix holds the broadcasting rights for PPV/VOD/Streaming for Viacom-Paramount, MGM, United Artists, Lion's Gate, Disney's Marvel Franchise... Yep that's a big gamble indeed.... All these streaming services are becoming pretty much Cable TV 2.0. Today (UK) if you want to watch most things well it's Netflix (with DNS/IP region hacks to get US and UK content), Amazon Prime Video (probably the poorest of the bunch at least in the UK as here it's nothing more than a VOD service sadly), NowTV (Sky) which seems to grab all the new films and probably a couple of additional players soo to be important. And this is only if you care about English language content, if you want regional content in Spanish, French, Italian or w/e you probably need to find a couple other providers. So what 2 years ago was a 5.99 all you can stream buffet is turning into the same bloated cable package from 10 years ago, get basic (netflix) and then add all the other stuff. Still need to pirate HBO if you don't have Sky or you want HD, if HBO Go(? or was it live?) launches in Europe that's another 5-10 US/GBP/EUR a month, sheesh...
- cbaleanu 11y ago
  HBO GO is available in Romania FWIW
- LukeB_UK 11y ago
  Aren't all the HBO shows that Sky has available on NowTV? I've not found it lacking any I've been wanting to watch.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Yes and a big no, you need the a pass to view HBO content on NowTV. The problem is that the content disappears after it's been aired and only shows up again just prior to the airing of the next season (usually 1-3 months before). The NowTV service is very cable like the movie pack costs 9.99, and the entertainment and sports packs costs 6.99 each. They are also seem to be wanting to push exclusive content that is accessible on their own streaming boxes only as they've stopped adding features for their smartTV /mobile apps. I would probably not pay for NowTV if i couldn't get it for "free" trough my vodafone subscription and since it's a company phone what i do is ask them to cancel the vodafone package every 6 months and get a new one which allows me to signup for their offer again (6 months of free NowTV, Spotify Premium, or 50GBP for the Google Play store).
- patzerhacker 11y ago
  The UK also has iPlayer, which is worth the VPN subscription fee I pay every month to use it.
mcv 11y ago
I thought Netflix was supposed to be a replacement for cable. Now they're saying they're an add-on rather than a replacement?
- commentzorro 11y ago
  I agree. I just dropped my cable subscription and switched to Netflix 6 weeks ago. I switched not because there was nothing to watch on cable but because the prices had gotten so far out of whack. Netflix had enough to watch at a reasonable price to make it a good deal. But, outside of Daredevil, I don't find its own content very compelling. (Too much "Soap Opera In Disguise" for my tastes. I blame "Game of Thrones" for that trend ... but I know I'm in the minority here.) Now they want to become another channel with the suggestion being subscribe to us and cable to get the shows you want. WTF Netflix! I want one service where I can stream _any_ show. Not multiple services where I have to decide which have the most shows I like, subscribe to a few and skip the rest. I want streaming Blockbuster/Redbox for and and all shows and movies!
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    Would you consider switching from Netflix to Hulu? From the article... "Rival US service Hulu will take on the Epix catalogue. "Our subscribers have been asking us for more, and more recent, big movies," Hulu said. "We listened. Through this new deal with Epix, we are proud to now be able to offer a huge selection of the biggest blockbusters and premium films.""
    - acheron 11y ago
      I thought Hulu still had ads even if you pay. That's a non-starter.
    - commentzorro 11y ago
      I looked at Hulu and Hulu plus. Hulu plus is a paid subscription that does have lots of content and would probably be acceptable ... except ... IT HAS F*ING ADS! I want NO ADS. I'm so sick to death of all the ads being shoved at me everywhere I turn these days.
Dwolb 11y ago
I feel like this move is too early for Netflix strategy-wise for non-power users. Yes, it may be the case that their early adopters plow through premium TV, but I'd like to investigate more to understand if people choose Netflix to have the option fo view movies like Transformers, licensed from Epix. This move would happen eventually as creators gain access to streaming (distribution) platforms and platforms (like Netflix) start creating. Each player is only gaining margin and then succeeding in locking in users. As a user, I would have preferred to see Netflix take the agency approach and allow streaming titles to take a percentage cut of revenue (although this would be difficult to calculate and bad for blockbuster hits who seek to increase risk and reward). This would mean Netflix competes on technology while content creators compete on price. If I were an investor, again I say this move is too early but one that, as the article mentions, was inevitable in the current model.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  With that approach Netflix will still have to setup the same infrastructure and get a lesser cut of the pie with how much it seems to cost them to stream as it is i don't see it working out. Whats worse it won't give them the ability to control their content offering which means they can't really steer their business. Also since broadcast licensing is a steaming pile of shit outside of the US you can't rely on smaller companies handling that it takes a giant to uproot existing right holders in Europe and in other regions and Europe is already a mess with tons of streaming providers in every country that have to geoblock everyone else because the licensing laws pre-date the shared market and also have to yield to local guilds when it comes to translations and dubbing. People have chosen Netflix in the past because it was a reliable way to have something to watch these days it might not be the case anymore. Their library is much more fluid and much of the content is being rotated in and out every couple of months to a point were their old 3 months notice period is no longer maintainable. 2 Years ago i could log into netflix and know for sure there will be something worth while to watch today I usually have to browse 3 services to find something. Their original shows are great House of Cards is amazing, and Narco's that came out just over the weekend and it rocked but it's becoming not worth keeping a sub if we are all honest. Gabe Newell said it best - the only way to combat piracy is to deliver a better service than the pirates and sadly Netflix and the other streaming providers are slipping behind. When I can get a better library and better quality from popcorn time why should i pay 20 GBP a months for streaming providers which force me to go trough 3 different libraries to find watchable content? Heck I've goot a Roku streamer just so I could have a single place to search through all the content providers i subscribe too instead of having to load Now TV, Netflix, Amazon Prime, BBC Player and other nonsense on my TV and It's still not as slick as PCT....
timdiggerm 11y ago
This is how you bring back movie piracy
- wickes 11y ago
  Did movie piracy go anywhere?
seer 11y ago
I feel so sad for people forced to use the legal distribution channels - it must be such a chore to have to be informed which movie or series is available on which channel, have to switch between different apps / recommendation engines and have pay to every single middle men his toll, when their part could very well be free. Using pirate solutions seems such a great experience in comparison - a global free peer to peer distribution channel with incredible bandwidth, availability and full catalog of most of human produced media, one click away. Services that are so resilient that are actually designed to withstand multiple governments' attempts to shut them down. No censorship of media, but a lot of structure and quality controls baked in, where actual people dynamically help each other police and secure content. I really can't believe an actual paying customer can't get even close to the comfort, ease and availability of something like this. It really is astonishing.
- chasing 11y ago
  I agree completely. I also always laugh at those suckers standing in line at the grocery store. The customer experience of just picking out my Mountain Dew and ice cream sandwich and just walking straight out of the store without paying -- it's cheap, it's easy. You don't have to deal with pesky middle-men trying to take their cut. Astonishing. Such comfort.
  - fpgeek 11y ago
    Sigh. I was hoping you were going for an analogy with self-checkout. That would have neatly and effectively pointed at the missing piece of the puzzle. Instead you went for the cheap moralizing, which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
      - sp332 11y ago
        Netflix has an extremely limited selection. Pirate Bay has much better coverage. seer's point is that there's plenty of room for improvement in the legal streaming business. There's no reason it has to be this hard for the user to give studios money. (edit) Here's a concrete example: a list of movies I have wanted to see. Only 3 of the movies on my list are available via streaming, and they are each on a different service! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MFdjnyYHGCIS8y56xOZPqKcWQ/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MF...
LukeB_UK 11y ago
It's worth noting that Netflix has a deal with Disney that states all new Disney, Marvel and Pixar films from 2016 are licensed to Netflix. This deal also gives them the back catalogue to Disney films. Source: http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/4/3727688/netflix-streaming-rights-new-disney-marvel-pixar-movies http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/4/3727688/netflix-streaming-...
- barranger 11y ago
  That deal is one of the most interesting, as it seems they've locked up not just streaming exclusivity, but all subscription services, meaning no HBO
howeyc 11y ago
Sigh. This is just becoming the same as Cable TV. In Cable TV days you had numerous premium channels you had to subscribe to which gave you access to movies/shows. You needed multiple subscriptions to get access to "all" the latest movies/content. Today, you need numerous premium streaming subscriptions to get access to movies/shows. You need multiple subscriptions to get access to "all" the latest movies/content. Nothing has changed. We now have "on-demand" instead of waiting for the station to play the movie/show we want to see. However, that is now available on Cable. So there is no differentiation that I can see between going on-line vs Cable. The main winner will again be piracy, one place to access anything and everything. No commercials.
- talmand 11y ago
  It was inevitable. Companies are trying to do their best to maintain their business models. The customer experience, as always, is the last factor to be considered.

55 points by martin_ 11y ago

Epix holds the broadcasting rights for PPV/VOD/Streaming for Viacom-Paramount, MGM, United Artists, Lion's Gate, Disney's Marvel Franchise... Yep that's a big gamble indeed.... All these streaming services are becoming pretty much Cable TV 2.0. Today (UK) if you want to watch most things well it's Netflix (with DNS/IP region hacks to get US and UK content), Amazon Prime Video (probably the poorest of the bunch at least in the UK as here it's nothing more than a VOD service sadly), NowTV (Sky) which seems to grab all the new films and probably a couple of additional players soo to be important. And this is only if you care about English language content, if you want regional content in Spanish, French, Italian or w/e you probably need to find a couple other providers. So what 2 years ago was a 5.99 all you can stream buffet is turning into the same bloated cable package from 10 years ago, get basic (netflix) and then add all the other stuff. Still need to pirate HBO if you don't have Sky or you want HD, if HBO Go(? or was it live?) launches in Europe that's another 5-10 US/GBP/EUR a month, sheesh...

cbaleanu 11y ago
HBO GO is available in Romania FWIW
LukeB_UK 11y ago
Aren't all the HBO shows that Sky has available on NowTV? I've not found it lacking any I've been wanting to watch.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Yes and a big no, you need the a pass to view HBO content on NowTV. The problem is that the content disappears after it's been aired and only shows up again just prior to the airing of the next season (usually 1-3 months before). The NowTV service is very cable like the movie pack costs 9.99, and the entertainment and sports packs costs 6.99 each. They are also seem to be wanting to push exclusive content that is accessible on their own streaming boxes only as they've stopped adding features for their smartTV /mobile apps. I would probably not pay for NowTV if i couldn't get it for "free" trough my vodafone subscription and since it's a company phone what i do is ask them to cancel the vodafone package every 6 months and get a new one which allows me to signup for their offer again (6 months of free NowTV, Spotify Premium, or 50GBP for the Google Play store).
patzerhacker 11y ago
The UK also has iPlayer, which is worth the VPN subscription fee I pay every month to use it.

mcv 11y ago

I thought Netflix was supposed to be a replacement for cable. Now they're saying they're an add-on rather than a replacement?

commentzorro 11y ago
I agree. I just dropped my cable subscription and switched to Netflix 6 weeks ago. I switched not because there was nothing to watch on cable but because the prices had gotten so far out of whack. Netflix had enough to watch at a reasonable price to make it a good deal. But, outside of Daredevil, I don't find its own content very compelling. (Too much "Soap Opera In Disguise" for my tastes. I blame "Game of Thrones" for that trend ... but I know I'm in the minority here.) Now they want to become another channel with the suggestion being subscribe to us and cable to get the shows you want. WTF Netflix! I want one service where I can stream _any_ show. Not multiple services where I have to decide which have the most shows I like, subscribe to a few and skip the rest. I want streaming Blockbuster/Redbox for and and all shows and movies!
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Would you consider switching from Netflix to Hulu? From the article... "Rival US service Hulu will take on the Epix catalogue. "Our subscribers have been asking us for more, and more recent, big movies," Hulu said. "We listened. Through this new deal with Epix, we are proud to now be able to offer a huge selection of the biggest blockbusters and premium films.""
  - acheron 11y ago
    I thought Hulu still had ads even if you pay. That's a non-starter.
  - commentzorro 11y ago
    I looked at Hulu and Hulu plus. Hulu plus is a paid subscription that does have lots of content and would probably be acceptable ... except ... IT HAS F*ING ADS! I want NO ADS. I'm so sick to death of all the ads being shoved at me everywhere I turn these days.

Dwolb 11y ago

I feel like this move is too early for Netflix strategy-wise for non-power users. Yes, it may be the case that their early adopters plow through premium TV, but I'd like to investigate more to understand if people choose Netflix to have the option fo view movies like Transformers, licensed from Epix. This move would happen eventually as creators gain access to streaming (distribution) platforms and platforms (like Netflix) start creating. Each player is only gaining margin and then succeeding in locking in users. As a user, I would have preferred to see Netflix take the agency approach and allow streaming titles to take a percentage cut of revenue (although this would be difficult to calculate and bad for blockbuster hits who seek to increase risk and reward). This would mean Netflix competes on technology while content creators compete on price. If I were an investor, again I say this move is too early but one that, as the article mentions, was inevitable in the current model.

dogma1138 11y ago
With that approach Netflix will still have to setup the same infrastructure and get a lesser cut of the pie with how much it seems to cost them to stream as it is i don't see it working out. Whats worse it won't give them the ability to control their content offering which means they can't really steer their business. Also since broadcast licensing is a steaming pile of shit outside of the US you can't rely on smaller companies handling that it takes a giant to uproot existing right holders in Europe and in other regions and Europe is already a mess with tons of streaming providers in every country that have to geoblock everyone else because the licensing laws pre-date the shared market and also have to yield to local guilds when it comes to translations and dubbing. People have chosen Netflix in the past because it was a reliable way to have something to watch these days it might not be the case anymore. Their library is much more fluid and much of the content is being rotated in and out every couple of months to a point were their old 3 months notice period is no longer maintainable. 2 Years ago i could log into netflix and know for sure there will be something worth while to watch today I usually have to browse 3 services to find something. Their original shows are great House of Cards is amazing, and Narco's that came out just over the weekend and it rocked but it's becoming not worth keeping a sub if we are all honest. Gabe Newell said it best - the only way to combat piracy is to deliver a better service than the pirates and sadly Netflix and the other streaming providers are slipping behind. When I can get a better library and better quality from popcorn time why should i pay 20 GBP a months for streaming providers which force me to go trough 3 different libraries to find watchable content? Heck I've goot a Roku streamer just so I could have a single place to search through all the content providers i subscribe too instead of having to load Now TV, Netflix, Amazon Prime, BBC Player and other nonsense on my TV and It's still not as slick as PCT....

timdiggerm 11y ago

This is how you bring back movie piracy

wickes 11y ago
Did movie piracy go anywhere?

seer 11y ago

I feel so sad for people forced to use the legal distribution channels - it must be such a chore to have to be informed which movie or series is available on which channel, have to switch between different apps / recommendation engines and have pay to every single middle men his toll, when their part could very well be free. Using pirate solutions seems such a great experience in comparison - a global free peer to peer distribution channel with incredible bandwidth, availability and full catalog of most of human produced media, one click away. Services that are so resilient that are actually designed to withstand multiple governments' attempts to shut them down. No censorship of media, but a lot of structure and quality controls baked in, where actual people dynamically help each other police and secure content. I really can't believe an actual paying customer can't get even close to the comfort, ease and availability of something like this. It really is astonishing.

chasing 11y ago
I agree completely. I also always laugh at those suckers standing in line at the grocery store. The customer experience of just picking out my Mountain Dew and ice cream sandwich and just walking straight out of the store without paying -- it's cheap, it's easy. You don't have to deal with pesky middle-men trying to take their cut. Astonishing. Such comfort.
- fpgeek 11y ago
  Sigh. I was hoping you were going for an analogy with self-checkout. That would have neatly and effectively pointed at the missing piece of the puzzle. Instead you went for the cheap moralizing, which can make you feel good but doesn't get anyone any closer to solving the problem.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - sp332 11y ago
      Netflix has an extremely limited selection. Pirate Bay has much better coverage. seer's point is that there's plenty of room for improvement in the legal streaming business. There's no reason it has to be this hard for the user to give studios money. (edit) Here's a concrete example: a list of movies I have wanted to see. Only 3 of the movies on my list are available via streaming, and they are each on a different service! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MFdjnyYHGCIS8y56xOZPqKcWQ/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atQ1ZHAoI6SC9a4Qk9MF...

LukeB_UK 11y ago

It's worth noting that Netflix has a deal with Disney that states all new Disney, Marvel and Pixar films from 2016 are licensed to Netflix. This deal also gives them the back catalogue to Disney films. Source: http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/4/3727688/netflix-streaming-rights-new-disney-marvel-pixar-movies http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/4/3727688/netflix-streaming-...

barranger 11y ago
That deal is one of the most interesting, as it seems they've locked up not just streaming exclusivity, but all subscription services, meaning no HBO

howeyc 11y ago

Sigh. This is just becoming the same as Cable TV. In Cable TV days you had numerous premium channels you had to subscribe to which gave you access to movies/shows. You needed multiple subscriptions to get access to "all" the latest movies/content. Today, you need numerous premium streaming subscriptions to get access to movies/shows. You need multiple subscriptions to get access to "all" the latest movies/content. Nothing has changed. We now have "on-demand" instead of waiting for the station to play the movie/show we want to see. However, that is now available on Cable. So there is no differentiation that I can see between going on-line vs Cable. The main winner will again be piracy, one place to access anything and everything. No commercials.

talmand 11y ago
It was inevitable. Companies are trying to do their best to maintain their business models. The customer experience, as always, is the last factor to be considered.