3 ms·

> The idea that data can fundamentally changed based on how it's viewed, legally, is absurd. Data itself doesn't change, usage patterns do, and that is why res

by snuxoll 11y ago

> The idea that data can fundamentally changed based on how it's viewed, legally, is absurd. Data itself doesn't change, usage patterns do, and that is why restrictions like this exist. My internet connection at home is a reasonably fat 75/5Mbps 'business-class' pipe, I'm paying for a service that expects pretty high usage and the infrastructure is designed to handle it - the coaxial cable going to my house has enough bandwidth and so does the fiber going from the local cable node back to the big datacenter where my traffic eventually gets routed to the rest of the internet. Mobile has an extremely annoying limitation in that we can't just run a cable to every phone, we want stuff to happen wirelessly! Well, since there's no wires providing service every user has to in essence share the same bandwidth coming from a cell site. We can make sure there's plenty of fiber going to each site, but physically 10Mhz of spectrum can only provide so much bandwidth, and that is a huge limiting factor of wireless service. Your 3-6" smartphone has very different usage patterns compared to my 13" ultrabook. You may watch a couple youtube videos, stream some music, maybe even watch a movie on Netflix - but you are unlikely to do so for extended periods of time or on a frequent basis, the usage is very sporadic and lends itself well to sharing with other users. Usage on a tethered laptop or other device is very different, I'm sitting down right now connected to my work VPN 'getting stuff done', checking email, moving large files around, downloading an update for Visual Studio, the list goes on. And this is not something that I do for 10 minutes or even an hour, this is my entire work-day, and I regularly use 10's of Gigabytes of data, something our limited wireless spectrum is not well suited to handle for a large amount of users (that's what WiFi is for!). Unless nationwide we are going to turn a large enough block of wireless spectrum into a national wireless ISP (we're talking probably 100-200Mhz) we simply do not have enough bandwidth over the airwaves to support people with these usage patterns.

ethbro 11y ago
Exactly, but at the same time you need to keep a firmer leash on your marketing department to match reality.
- rhino369 11y ago
  T-Mobile is very upfront about tethering. It tells you exactly how much tether data you get.
- duaneb 11y ago
  To be fair, T-Mobile is quite explicit about the limitations. When I look at my plan options it explicitly says "7GB tethered data". I just don't like that "tethering" is a thing at all as opposed to just "using your phone's radio".
  - ethbro 11y ago
    The issue I have is that the marketing materials rarely seem to capture those nuances. And that seems kind of scummy to me. http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html# http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html# As an ex-T-Mobile customer, I will completely admit they do a passable job of information (especially compared to other carriers). I think mostly because they take the saner business strategy of "limited 4G + unlimited <= 3G". But the phrase "unlimited data" still appears an awfully lot on that page, without a lot of caveats... Unlimited data isn't unlimited if they limit the devices you can use it on.
duaneb 11y ago
This strikes me as preemptive optimization. That's a lot of argument to back up, though I think it has merit. I would feel much more comfortable with straight up metered internet, variably-priced based on current congestion. I would feel much more inclined to believe you if it didn't look like the service providers were trying to change the meaning of internet access—it shouldn't matter which kind of device is "plugged in". That's just terrible service.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- snuxoll 11y ago
  > it shouldn't matter which kind of device is "plugged in". That's just terrible service. For all of T-Mobile's plans except for the "unlimited" plan, it doesn't. I have 1GB of LTE data, after I use it on my device or through tethering I get throttled to EDGE and tethering is disabled until the end of my billing cycle. Users on the "unlimited" plan only get unlimited usage on their device to prevent network congestion from people using it as their primary internet connection for their home (and there is a lot more people that would try to do this than you would think). These users get a separate 7GB bucket of tethering usage, and it is plainly spelled out when choosing a plan.
  - duaneb 11y ago
    > I have 1GB of LTE data, after I use it on my device or through tethering I get throttled to EDGE and tethering is disabled until the end of my billing cycle. I'm fine with this. I don't like calling it unlimited if it's limited to your cell phone.
- chc 11y ago
  In what way is it possibly beneficial to me as a user to have metered Internet for all cases rather than unlimited for most cases and metered for others?
  - duaneb 11y ago

by snuxoll 11y ago

ethbro 11y ago

Exactly, but at the same time you need to keep a firmer leash on your marketing department to match reality.

rhino369 11y ago
T-Mobile is very upfront about tethering. It tells you exactly how much tether data you get.
duaneb 11y ago
To be fair, T-Mobile is quite explicit about the limitations. When I look at my plan options it explicitly says "7GB tethered data". I just don't like that "tethering" is a thing at all as opposed to just "using your phone's radio".
- ethbro 11y ago
  The issue I have is that the marketing materials rarely seem to capture those nuances. And that seems kind of scummy to me. http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html# http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html# As an ex-T-Mobile customer, I will completely admit they do a passable job of information (especially compared to other carriers). I think mostly because they take the saner business strategy of "limited 4G + unlimited <= 3G". But the phrase "unlimited data" still appears an awfully lot on that page, without a lot of caveats... Unlimited data isn't unlimited if they limit the devices you can use it on.

duaneb 11y ago

This strikes me as preemptive optimization. That's a lot of argument to back up, though I think it has merit. I would feel much more comfortable with straight up metered internet, variably-priced based on current congestion. I would feel much more inclined to believe you if it didn't look like the service providers were trying to change the meaning of internet access—it shouldn't matter which kind of device is "plugged in". That's just terrible service.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
snuxoll 11y ago
> it shouldn't matter which kind of device is "plugged in". That's just terrible service. For all of T-Mobile's plans except for the "unlimited" plan, it doesn't. I have 1GB of LTE data, after I use it on my device or through tethering I get throttled to EDGE and tethering is disabled until the end of my billing cycle. Users on the "unlimited" plan only get unlimited usage on their device to prevent network congestion from people using it as their primary internet connection for their home (and there is a lot more people that would try to do this than you would think). These users get a separate 7GB bucket of tethering usage, and it is plainly spelled out when choosing a plan.
- duaneb 11y ago
  > I have 1GB of LTE data, after I use it on my device or through tethering I get throttled to EDGE and tethering is disabled until the end of my billing cycle. I'm fine with this. I don't like calling it unlimited if it's limited to your cell phone.
chc 11y ago
In what way is it possibly beneficial to me as a user to have metered Internet for all cases rather than unlimited for most cases and metered for others?
- duaneb 11y ago