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The reason I ask, is because especially in a social and political culture, the USA and the Netherlands are vastly different. We Dutch are social democrats, and

The reason I ask, is because especially in a social and political culture, the USA and the Netherlands are vastly different. We Dutch are social democrats, and (nearly) any politician from the USA would be considered extreme-right here. Our healthcare, education and justice systems are way different. Our media is nothing like the american media in terms of shock and entertainment value. Most newspapers and news stations stick to reporting the news, and do not sensationalize. Work and living culture is very different as well. Here, people do not hail 'the american dream' and overachievers. People strive to be happy, and work only as much as necessary to achieve that. 80% is the norm here, not full time. The only thing that I can think of as being americanised is pop music.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
Oh absolutely, I think there's also definitely a sense of disdain for the US in the Netherlands for many of the reasons you mention. (democrats being much further right than even the VVD, healthcare had been a joke for decades, substantial debt as a condition for getting a college education, public schools being sub-par, media like Fox News are a joke etc). My point wasn't in saying that the Netherlands is like it, but rather that compared to say France or Germany or Italy or many European countries, we've drawn a lot from the US. The vast majority of all popular movies, music, television shows and books are from the US. Not to mention consumer culture. And while we're pretty good at standing our ground, we tend to flirt with a lot of American concepts. For example mandatory sentences, a staple of the American justice system, has been numerously put forward by some Dutch politicians, despite fierce resistance from judges and attorneys. Private schools, honours programmes, the removal of study finance during a slow rise of private funding by scholarships. In healthcare we've seen a very slow but noticeable trend to drop fundamental aspects of healthcare from mandatory collective basic insurance towards 'additional' insurance packages, from 'de pill' (not insured for 21 and older) to the majority of dental work. Some years ago we flirted with flexible pricing in dental work, fortunately when it turned out to be a disaster the government didn't double down but sensibly shut it down. And in the rest of society we saw a period of deregulation (since the crisis the trend partially reversed) and privatisation. You can find these influences all over Europe of course, but the degree of pervasiveness of American influence in say France or Germany isn't quite as large. France has Hollywood, sure, but mixed with French cinema, and often dubbed. Let's not forget for example that France actually has specific anti-foreign policies. It's not often discussed but France has had screen quotas for decades, i.e. cinemas aren't allowed to show foreign movies for substantial parts of the year. 40% of TV must be exclusively French and another 20% European, leaving American influence a minority. Stuff like that is intentional, to have France remain French, in the Netherlands it's contrary to our international diplomatic and business model which is to be an open economy, which is susceptible to influences from abroad, and naturally in particular from the world's hegemony. In France it's called cultural exceptionalism, mostly practiced in cinema and literature. As a proxy of its success in sustaining a vibrant French cinema industry you could point to a study (pretty old now) in the late 90s about the number of cinema festivals France held compared to other European countries here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/timeline/13255a67eb1bab4307fe904d9e06a964.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/timeline/13255a67e... But I do agree with you we've been able to do things a 'Dutch way' quite well, and sensible Dutch policy is pretty much the only source of nationalism or pride for the country I have. (I'm normally not much of a chauvinist)

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

Oh absolutely, I think there's also definitely a sense of disdain for the US in the Netherlands for many of the reasons you mention. (democrats being much further right than even the VVD, healthcare had been a joke for decades, substantial debt as a condition for getting a college education, public schools being sub-par, media like Fox News are a joke etc). My point wasn't in saying that the Netherlands is like it, but rather that compared to say France or Germany or Italy or many European countries, we've drawn a lot from the US. The vast majority of all popular movies, music, television shows and books are from the US. Not to mention consumer culture. And while we're pretty good at standing our ground, we tend to flirt with a lot of American concepts. For example mandatory sentences, a staple of the American justice system, has been numerously put forward by some Dutch politicians, despite fierce resistance from judges and attorneys. Private schools, honours programmes, the removal of study finance during a slow rise of private funding by scholarships. In healthcare we've seen a very slow but noticeable trend to drop fundamental aspects of healthcare from mandatory collective basic insurance towards 'additional' insurance packages, from 'de pill' (not insured for 21 and older) to the majority of dental work. Some years ago we flirted with flexible pricing in dental work, fortunately when it turned out to be a disaster the government didn't double down but sensibly shut it down. And in the rest of society we saw a period of deregulation (since the crisis the trend partially reversed) and privatisation. You can find these influences all over Europe of course, but the degree of pervasiveness of American influence in say France or Germany isn't quite as large. France has Hollywood, sure, but mixed with French cinema, and often dubbed. Let's not forget for example that France actually has specific anti-foreign policies. It's not often discussed but France has had screen quotas for decades, i.e. cinemas aren't allowed to show foreign movies for substantial parts of the year. 40% of TV must be exclusively French and another 20% European, leaving American influence a minority. Stuff like that is intentional, to have France remain French, in the Netherlands it's contrary to our international diplomatic and business model which is to be an open economy, which is susceptible to influences from abroad, and naturally in particular from the world's hegemony. In France it's called cultural exceptionalism, mostly practiced in cinema and literature. As a proxy of its success in sustaining a vibrant French cinema industry you could point to a study (pretty old now) in the late 90s about the number of cinema festivals France held compared to other European countries here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/timeline/13255a67eb1bab4307fe904d9e06a964.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/timeline/13255a67e... But I do agree with you we've been able to do things a 'Dutch way' quite well, and sensible Dutch policy is pretty much the only source of nationalism or pride for the country I have. (I'm normally not much of a chauvinist)