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I honestly don't mean to sound antagonistic, but literally every single point you make is wrong. > use the same hardware to put it into my car It is not the s

by nkoren 11y ago

I honestly don't mean to sound antagonistic, but literally every single point you make is wrong. > use the same hardware to put it into my car It is not the same hardware: hydrogen pumps are far more complicated, difficult, and expensive than gasoline pumps. (http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11493/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-2 http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11493/why-fuel-cell-car...). > wait the same amount of time Hydrogen cars will always have very poor range compared to hydrocarbon-fueled cars. So for the range that you get, you will spend much more time pumping. See the blog-post series above for more on that. > and pay for it exactly the same way I do today Because the infrastructure is many times more expensive than petroleum infrastructure -- and this is not just a matter of relative economies of scale, but a fundamental attribute of hydrogen -- you will need to pay much more to recoup those capital costs. Again, read the blog post series above (I'll stop repeating this, but it holds true for every point). > Only it will be clean. Only at your tailpipe, which is a false form of cleanliness. Systemically, Hydrogen is dirty. Hydrogen production is spectacularly inefficient. The only remotely efficient way of producing it is to extract it from hydrocarbons -- in which case it would actually be cleaner to generate work by burning the hydrocarbons directly. Truly "clean" methods of hydrogen production (electrolysis of H2O) require copious amounts of electricity, which must come from somewhere, and again would be better used directly, via a battery-electric vehicle. Basically, any energy source which produces hydrogen could be used to directly power a vehicle, and would be 5x-10x cleaner by doing so. > And I won't involving changing my life to fit my car. You have already changed your life to fit your car -- by driving to gas stations! Home-charging is a feature, not a bug. Besides, if you really want to drive to a remote location to get a complete top-up of your range -- that's what battery-swap is for. Battery-swap stations are far cheaper to build than hydrogen filling stations, and can give you more range, more quickly, than hydrogen pumping. And they are truly clean, not imaginarily clean.

threeseed 11y ago
You are missing the point. Look at it from the consumer's perspective. It will be identical to how they fill up their car today. Nothing new to learn. No change in behaviour. No finding new stations out of the way. No proprietary battery swaps that exist only at specific stations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xCbmkWKkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xCbmkWKkw
- nkoren 11y ago
  Did you even read what I wrote, or follow the sources? Hydrogen pumping is absolutely not identical to how people fill up their cars today. And you can't simply retrofit a standard gas station to pump hydrogen: you need to build an entirely new facility. Just like a battery-swap station, except much more expensive (and therefore rarer and further out of the way). If you could simply replace gasoline with hydrogen, then your arguments might have some merit (although it still wouldn't be "clean" by any real measure). But you can't, and therefore your arguments don't.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    It's identical in that you pull up to a pump, insert a credit card, connect a hose to your car, and in about 5 minutes you are on your way. All your other complaints are irrelevant to the consumer.

by nkoren 11y ago

threeseed 11y ago

You are missing the point. Look at it from the consumer's perspective. It will be identical to how they fill up their car today. Nothing new to learn. No change in behaviour. No finding new stations out of the way. No proprietary battery swaps that exist only at specific stations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xCbmkWKkw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xCbmkWKkw

nkoren 11y ago
Did you even read what I wrote, or follow the sources? Hydrogen pumping is absolutely not identical to how people fill up their cars today. And you can't simply retrofit a standard gas station to pump hydrogen: you need to build an entirely new facility. Just like a battery-swap station, except much more expensive (and therefore rarer and further out of the way). If you could simply replace gasoline with hydrogen, then your arguments might have some merit (although it still wouldn't be "clean" by any real measure). But you can't, and therefore your arguments don't.
- ams6110 11y ago
  It's identical in that you pull up to a pump, insert a credit card, connect a hose to your car, and in about 5 minutes you are on your way. All your other complaints are irrelevant to the consumer.