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Solar is about to take a legislative beating, as the oil lobbyists have won. In the UK if you want to install a Solar array, there are no subsidies - in fact, y

Solar is about to take a legislative beating, as the oil lobbyists have won. In the UK if you want to install a Solar array, there are no subsidies - in fact, you have to pay a levee for "taking money from oil producers". And don't forget the subsidies for oil and gas in the UK are ~20x those of renewables. But hey, as we all know, co2 is love, and "this green crap all has to go".

josephagoss 11y ago
It's disgusting that oil and gas can receive 20x subsidies. It's like a cruel sick joke.
- sillygeese 11y ago
  It's just politicians and their cronies benefiting at the masses' expense, i.e. the system working as intended.
  - rosser 11y ago
    That doesn't make it stink any less.
    - sillygeese 11y ago
      Of course not. We shouldn't have governments at all, because all they do is exploit us. That's why they exist. All you need to see is that they're taking our money by force, and you can make sense of everything they do - it's all about keeping us blind to the exploitation so that they can keep on doing it. King's had "The Divine Right" to rule over everyone else, and governments have "The Social Contract", which amounts to the same thing.
andy_boot 11y ago
>subsidies for oil and gas in the UK are ~20x those of renewables. I'm not saying you are wrong - but can you show me your source for this?
- notahacker 11y ago
  Depends on how broad your definition of subsidy is. Oil and gas companies operating in the UK are some of the largest direct contributors to the UK exchequer, and so the tax breaks they're able to claim for certain activities are also relatively large. (with the government indirectly getting those tax breaks back and more by taxing domestically-sold fuel at high rates by world standards) Renewables, by contrast, make up ~7% of the UK's electricity generation and <1% of its fleet of road vehicles, so even the relatively generous subsidy schemes don't make that much of dent in the UK budget.
achamayou 11y ago
Can you quote any source on that ? Last I checked (and that was after this year's budget), there's still a 1.63p/kWh subsidy on domestic solar. Certainly no levee for "taking money from oil producers".
- notahacker 11y ago
  The levy for "taking money from oil producers" does not exist. What the OP is probably referring to is the phasing out of the roundabout renewables' subsidy mechanism whereby renewable energy suppliers received tradable Climate Change Levy Exemption certificates which power consumers could purchase to claim tax breaks against the "Climate Change Levy".
  - achamayou 11y ago
    That's just part of the tapering off of subsidies for renewable energies as they become more widespread. Although the amounts can be discussed, renewables are still very much subsidised with public money, and solar is no exception. I've been a customer of Ecotricity for a while now, and they've been able to consistently improve their mix while keeping prices stable. I don't believe the regulatory environment is working against them, and they don't make that claim either.
    - notahacker 11y ago
      I never tried to argue the industry wasn't subsidised (and am a bit perplexed at attracting downvotes for posting a neutral clarification of the legislative changes?), but it's fair to say that plenty of energy firms were objecting about the unanticipated abolition of the Climate Change Levy exemption, not least Drax who saw their earnings forecast hslved.
raesene9 11y ago
Those are fairly strong statements, and not what I've seen of the UK market, so would be interested to see your references. whilst the tories are indeed changing the subsidy picture, renewables in the UK can still get FiT tariffs to quite a reasonable degree, which is driving a lot of the investment in these areas.

josephagoss 11y ago

It's disgusting that oil and gas can receive 20x subsidies. It's like a cruel sick joke.

sillygeese 11y ago
It's just politicians and their cronies benefiting at the masses' expense, i.e. the system working as intended.
- rosser 11y ago
  That doesn't make it stink any less.
  - sillygeese 11y ago
    Of course not. We shouldn't have governments at all, because all they do is exploit us. That's why they exist. All you need to see is that they're taking our money by force, and you can make sense of everything they do - it's all about keeping us blind to the exploitation so that they can keep on doing it. King's had "The Divine Right" to rule over everyone else, and governments have "The Social Contract", which amounts to the same thing.

andy_boot 11y ago

>subsidies for oil and gas in the UK are ~20x those of renewables. I'm not saying you are wrong - but can you show me your source for this?

notahacker 11y ago
Depends on how broad your definition of subsidy is. Oil and gas companies operating in the UK are some of the largest direct contributors to the UK exchequer, and so the tax breaks they're able to claim for certain activities are also relatively large. (with the government indirectly getting those tax breaks back and more by taxing domestically-sold fuel at high rates by world standards) Renewables, by contrast, make up ~7% of the UK's electricity generation and <1% of its fleet of road vehicles, so even the relatively generous subsidy schemes don't make that much of dent in the UK budget.

achamayou 11y ago

Can you quote any source on that ? Last I checked (and that was after this year's budget), there's still a 1.63p/kWh subsidy on domestic solar. Certainly no levee for "taking money from oil producers".

notahacker 11y ago
The levy for "taking money from oil producers" does not exist. What the OP is probably referring to is the phasing out of the roundabout renewables' subsidy mechanism whereby renewable energy suppliers received tradable Climate Change Levy Exemption certificates which power consumers could purchase to claim tax breaks against the "Climate Change Levy".
- achamayou 11y ago
  That's just part of the tapering off of subsidies for renewable energies as they become more widespread. Although the amounts can be discussed, renewables are still very much subsidised with public money, and solar is no exception. I've been a customer of Ecotricity for a while now, and they've been able to consistently improve their mix while keeping prices stable. I don't believe the regulatory environment is working against them, and they don't make that claim either.
  - notahacker 11y ago
    I never tried to argue the industry wasn't subsidised (and am a bit perplexed at attracting downvotes for posting a neutral clarification of the legislative changes?), but it's fair to say that plenty of energy firms were objecting about the unanticipated abolition of the Climate Change Levy exemption, not least Drax who saw their earnings forecast hslved.

raesene9 11y ago

Those are fairly strong statements, and not what I've seen of the UK market, so would be interested to see your references. whilst the tories are indeed changing the subsidy picture, renewables in the UK can still get FiT tariffs to quite a reasonable degree, which is driving a lot of the investment in these areas.