5 ms·

>In the UK obesity in boys is around 16%, in the Netherlands it's around 1.6%. Not to detract much from your larger point, but this is much more likely due to

by hueving 11y ago

>In the UK obesity in boys is around 16%, in the Netherlands it's around 1.6%. Not to detract much from your larger point, but this is much more likely due to diet than cycling. If the UK is picking up eating habits similar to the US, the ~200 calories a day you might burn from a leisurely bike commute (can't be vigorous enough to cause sweating) isn't going to be enough to offset the big caloric imbalances that lead to obesity.

kaonashi 11y ago
How is ~10% of average daily caloric intake insignificant?
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  Exactly, especially when it's the last 10% that makes the most difference in deciding whether there's a caloric deficit, break-even or surplus, and that over time these small differences compound to radical changes in bodyweight.
- hueving 11y ago
  When you're 500 over, you need to recognize that biking isn't going to fix your problem. People pretend exercise just magically fixes obesity when it's rarely that close of an imbalance for obese (not overweight) people.
  - kaonashi 11y ago
    You'll gain weight at half the rate.
awjr 11y ago
I'm not saying kids are not fat in the Netherlands, just not obese. Something like 60% of kids cycle to school in the Netherlands. It's estimated that about 22% of rush hour in the UK is the school run. I'm trying to look at Cambridge obesity rates vs other cities to see if there is some correlation.
awjr 11y ago
EU obesity rates with the UK at 26% and Netherlands at 11%. Italy is even better, so diet is obviously a key factor. http://www.dw.com/en/rising-eu-obesity-rings-alarm-bells-in-brussels/a-16821112 http://www.dw.com/en/rising-eu-obesity-rings-alarm-bells-in-... I've looked at obesity studies in the UK and the child focused ones look at the location of fast food restaurants close to schools. I've never seen a study that looks at obesity rates and examines the Local Authorities transport policies. Cambridge, Bristol and some parts of London are possibly good control groups. I know Bath has better health than the UK average, but 27% of people walk to work.
DonHopkins 11y ago
On the other hand, the typical diet in the Netherlands consists largely of cheese and mayonnaise. The parents who pedal their kids around in a bakfiets [1] (the Dutch equivalent of an SUV) have every incentive to raise their children to be slim, and the parents get a lot of exercise themselves. [1] http://bicyclebelleboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bakfiets-3.jpg http://bicyclebelleboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bak...
IkmoIkmo 11y ago
In terms of US eating diet in the UK, well the Netherlands is kind of split there. On the one hand it's the most americanised country in Europe, on the other hand it's got its own distinct eating culture, breakfast in the Netherlands isn't really like anywhere on the planet and food eaten during school is mostly homemade (although by highschool this starts to fade). But cycling can be significant. 200 calories per day is probably pretty accurate, I'd say it's more like 250 though. We're talking then about 1750 calories per week. Now if you were at caloric break even point, added an exercise that lost 1750 calories per week, ceteris paribus, that's about half a pound of weight loss per week. Over the course of a year that's 25 pounds. Or in other words, if you were at a caloric surplus (of 250 kcal per day) such that you'd gain 25 pounds every year during school, adding this exercise would totally negate that slow path to obesity. It's hugely significant. Not just that but even if it prevents a small weight increases of say 10 in that year, and improves endurance and cardiovascular health due to daily exercise, kids will feel better and are more prone to trying out sports than if they'd already start to be overweight (or even obese) and have poor condition. (not because they don't need it, but because so many people start to identify them as a non-sports person, and many obese people start to self-identify with this, too). And that has compounding longer term effects. Beyond that, I fully agree with the notion that you can't exercise away a bad diet, it's trivially easy to eat quantities of food that take massive exercise effort to counterbalance. But for kids in the Netherlands I do think cycling is pretty significant.
- nightcracker 11y ago
  > It's the most americanised country in Europe What makes you think that?
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    Strange, I distinctly remember reading a study about this a few years back, was in all the newspapers, too. Can't find even a trace of this right now, will have to take this back then. I could make a claim for a high degree of americanisation based on a bunch of anecdotal evidence and references to e.g. France being distinctly French, like Spain or say Italy, but Dutch culture & media being very US dominated. (which isn't anything new, last century we were as impressionable by french, german and British culture), but at most I could say it's pretty americanised, not necessarily the most. Either way, it doesn't really extend to kid's staple diets all that much anyway. Nobody eats hagelslag on bread haha.

by hueving 11y ago

kaonashi 11y ago

How is ~10% of average daily caloric intake insignificant?

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
Exactly, especially when it's the last 10% that makes the most difference in deciding whether there's a caloric deficit, break-even or surplus, and that over time these small differences compound to radical changes in bodyweight.
hueving 11y ago
When you're 500 over, you need to recognize that biking isn't going to fix your problem. People pretend exercise just magically fixes obesity when it's rarely that close of an imbalance for obese (not overweight) people.
- kaonashi 11y ago
  You'll gain weight at half the rate.

awjr 11y ago

I'm not saying kids are not fat in the Netherlands, just not obese. Something like 60% of kids cycle to school in the Netherlands. It's estimated that about 22% of rush hour in the UK is the school run. I'm trying to look at Cambridge obesity rates vs other cities to see if there is some correlation.

awjr 11y ago

EU obesity rates with the UK at 26% and Netherlands at 11%. Italy is even better, so diet is obviously a key factor. http://www.dw.com/en/rising-eu-obesity-rings-alarm-bells-in-brussels/a-16821112 http://www.dw.com/en/rising-eu-obesity-rings-alarm-bells-in-... I've looked at obesity studies in the UK and the child focused ones look at the location of fast food restaurants close to schools. I've never seen a study that looks at obesity rates and examines the Local Authorities transport policies. Cambridge, Bristol and some parts of London are possibly good control groups. I know Bath has better health than the UK average, but 27% of people walk to work.

DonHopkins 11y ago

On the other hand, the typical diet in the Netherlands consists largely of cheese and mayonnaise. The parents who pedal their kids around in a bakfiets [1] (the Dutch equivalent of an SUV) have every incentive to raise their children to be slim, and the parents get a lot of exercise themselves. [1] http://bicyclebelleboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bakfiets-3.jpg http://bicyclebelleboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bak...

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

In terms of US eating diet in the UK, well the Netherlands is kind of split there. On the one hand it's the most americanised country in Europe, on the other hand it's got its own distinct eating culture, breakfast in the Netherlands isn't really like anywhere on the planet and food eaten during school is mostly homemade (although by highschool this starts to fade). But cycling can be significant. 200 calories per day is probably pretty accurate, I'd say it's more like 250 though. We're talking then about 1750 calories per week. Now if you were at caloric break even point, added an exercise that lost 1750 calories per week, ceteris paribus, that's about half a pound of weight loss per week. Over the course of a year that's 25 pounds. Or in other words, if you were at a caloric surplus (of 250 kcal per day) such that you'd gain 25 pounds every year during school, adding this exercise would totally negate that slow path to obesity. It's hugely significant. Not just that but even if it prevents a small weight increases of say 10 in that year, and improves endurance and cardiovascular health due to daily exercise, kids will feel better and are more prone to trying out sports than if they'd already start to be overweight (or even obese) and have poor condition. (not because they don't need it, but because so many people start to identify them as a non-sports person, and many obese people start to self-identify with this, too). And that has compounding longer term effects. Beyond that, I fully agree with the notion that you can't exercise away a bad diet, it's trivially easy to eat quantities of food that take massive exercise effort to counterbalance. But for kids in the Netherlands I do think cycling is pretty significant.

nightcracker 11y ago
> It's the most americanised country in Europe What makes you think that?
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  Strange, I distinctly remember reading a study about this a few years back, was in all the newspapers, too. Can't find even a trace of this right now, will have to take this back then. I could make a claim for a high degree of americanisation based on a bunch of anecdotal evidence and references to e.g. France being distinctly French, like Spain or say Italy, but Dutch culture & media being very US dominated. (which isn't anything new, last century we were as impressionable by french, german and British culture), but at most I could say it's pretty americanised, not necessarily the most. Either way, it doesn't really extend to kid's staple diets all that much anyway. Nobody eats hagelslag on bread haha.