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Can you elaborate on that a bit or give an example maybe? It seems to me that mathematics does pay attention to what things are, since mathematicians often star

by ayberkt 11y ago

Can you elaborate on that a bit or give an example maybe? It seems to me that mathematics does pay attention to what things are, since mathematicians often start their arguments with getting themselves and their readers to agree on rigorous definitions of mathematical structures, before they do anything with those.

zornthewise 11y ago
This is just something I thought of and I am not sure if this makes sense but mathematicians explore objects much in the same way particle physicists do. So the physicists bounces particles off each other and see what happens to understand how these particles work. Similarly, mathematicians study objects by looking how they act on other objects. So if it turns out that two differently defined objects have the same actions on other objects, we call them isomorphic and don't really distinguish between them. So for instance, we say that the set of rigid motions that preserve the triangle and it's orientation is the same as the set of permutations of the roots of say: x^3-3x+1 even if the two sets are absolutely not defined in the same way. Hope that makes some sense.
Retra 11y ago
It's basically duck-typing. If you can do arithmetic on it, it's a number. If you can do matrix operations, it's a matrix. If it satisfies the axioms of X, it's an X.
- AstralStorm 11y ago
  Not true. You can do arithmetic on many things that are not a number. This is why objects such as "rings" exist. Matrix is not defined just by operations like a ring is, but also by structure - you have N independent axes in a specified space.
  - verbin217 11y ago
    That's a bit pedantic but sure. Here it is fixed: > If you can do numeric arithmetic on it, it's a number.
    - tomadi 11y ago
      That is begging the question. What does "numeric" mean?
  - Retra 11y ago
    Do you have a definition of number that addresses this? >you have N independent axes in a specified space. Only if you have an operation that maps the matrices to that space.
nabla9 11y ago
I think he means that mathematical objects are pure structure without substance. They are defined only in relation to other objects and there is no deeper meaning.

by ayberkt 11y ago

zornthewise 11y ago

This is just something I thought of and I am not sure if this makes sense but mathematicians explore objects much in the same way particle physicists do. So the physicists bounces particles off each other and see what happens to understand how these particles work. Similarly, mathematicians study objects by looking how they act on other objects. So if it turns out that two differently defined objects have the same actions on other objects, we call them isomorphic and don't really distinguish between them. So for instance, we say that the set of rigid motions that preserve the triangle and it's orientation is the same as the set of permutations of the roots of say: x^3-3x+1 even if the two sets are absolutely not defined in the same way. Hope that makes some sense.

Retra 11y ago

It's basically duck-typing. If you can do arithmetic on it, it's a number. If you can do matrix operations, it's a matrix. If it satisfies the axioms of X, it's an X.

AstralStorm 11y ago
Not true. You can do arithmetic on many things that are not a number. This is why objects such as "rings" exist. Matrix is not defined just by operations like a ring is, but also by structure - you have N independent axes in a specified space.
- verbin217 11y ago
  That's a bit pedantic but sure. Here it is fixed: > If you can do numeric arithmetic on it, it's a number.
  - tomadi 11y ago
    That is begging the question. What does "numeric" mean?
- Retra 11y ago
  Do you have a definition of number that addresses this? >you have N independent axes in a specified space. Only if you have an operation that maps the matrices to that space.

nabla9 11y ago

I think he means that mathematical objects are pure structure without substance. They are defined only in relation to other objects and there is no deeper meaning.