6 ms·

Uber hires two security researchers to improve car technology

67 points by chermanowicz 11y ago

mey 11y ago
Not sure if this has been well known before (I don't follow uber much) but I find it very interesting that Uber is doubling down on self driving cars. It makes fantastic sense for what they are doing, but as an "employee"/"contractor" driving for them, I'd be looking at options long term.
- andyfleming 11y ago
  Surprisingly, I've found that a number of uber drivers seem to be aware of the fact that they will ultimately become obsolete yet are fine just riding the wave in the meantime.
  - cjbprime 11y ago
    Do you mean that you asked them while they were driving for you and this is what they said? (That's not a good mechanism for finding out how service workers actually feel about their jobs.)
    - andyfleming 11y ago
      As I recall, I've asked personal friends that drive for the service as well as individuals driving me. Additionally, I've found that most uber drivers are pretty open about sharing their opinions about uber, competitors, etc.
  - dfc 11y ago
    That is what I would expect to hear. I would be surprised to hear that the drivers were unhappy in the interim to have a job. Keep in mind this is a job with significant autonomy, i.e. variable/flexible schedule and little to no managerial supervision, and yet it does not require any rigorous training, previous work experience or advanced certification. What percentage of current uber drivers do you think will stop being uber drivers because cars will drive themselves? How far out in the future do you think that is?
    - uptown 11y ago
      6 years for widespread autonomous vehicles on our roads. 2030 for the majority of vehicles sold being fully autonomous capable.
  - enraged_camel 11y ago
    This is true for literally all unskilled labor. Most such workers are aware that it's only a matter of time before technology makes them obsolete. The older ones may be able to ride the wave until they retire, but those who are in their 30s and early 40s are in for a rude awakening within the next ten years or so.
- wkcamp 11y ago
  Just to add on, think of how much more centralized the company's model becomes. A self-driving car probably won't depend on third-party drivers and Uber can start intaking a lot more cash from its services (of course, maintenance and such costs may increase).
  - wpietri 11y ago
    You're also neglecting capital costs. I think Uber's major business innovation is shifting almost all of the cost and risk onto drivers by selling them "independence" and "great money". Previously, cab companies had to buy and maintain fleets of expensive cars; the biggest risk a driver took was the cost of one shift's rental. Now some are in hock for tens of thousands of dollars. And possibly millions given that they are no longer covered by taxi company insurance. Honestly, I think it's more risk than opportunity for them. Once driverless cars are ubiquitous, the barrier to entry will be pretty low. Currently to compete with Uber you need to sign up a bunch of drivers, trick them into paying most of your expenses, and then pay them just barely enough to keep them from quitting. But if all it takes is money for cars and the ability to buy an app, anybody with a strong brand and access to capital can go after them. Imagine, for example, you're BMW's CEO. You can build custom cars tuned for taxi service. You know the in-car software very, very well. You have a mess of industrial designers and deep research on customer motivations. Whenever normal-market orders dip, you just keep building for your taxi fleet and occasionally declare war on Uber in a new major city when you can flood it with shiny cars. You already have a service network and get parts at cost. You have incredible access to capital, great relationships with millions of existing consumers, and one of the world's strongest brands. Wouldn't it be tempting to say, "Fuck it, we've been in the transportation business for 100 years! This is just the next step."
    - tptacek 11y ago
      This is not really how a lot of cab companies work. Drivers can end up leasing cars or medallions from cab companies too. Cab drivers get screwed by cab companies, which are, contrary to the narrative that needs a counterbalance to Uber as the "bad guy", not corporate model citizens.
- calcsam 11y ago
  The average Uber driver is on the platform for 6 months. I don't think any of their drivers are too concerned with what the company is going to do 5 years from now.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    How much driver runway does Uber have left at that churn rate?
    - uptown 11y ago
      Not sure, but that churn rate may also be impacted by these changes they seem destined to make in order to drive profitability: https://twitter.com/NeilAnAlien/status/627873374505562112 https://twitter.com/NeilAnAlien/status/627873374505562112
      - sk5t 11y ago
        In other words, Uber would like to create a lucrative monopsony... nevertheless one imagines they are already doing their damndest to extract maximum value from the market while both maintaining overall market growth.
        uptown 11y ago
        Their usual strategy is to enter a new market, and pay drivers a higher rate and charge customers a lower rate (or provide discounts and coupons) to encourage growth. Once they're established, adjust those rates until they balance supply/demand. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLcMATPUsAAWceX.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLcMATPUsAAWceX.jpg:large
        DarthMader 11y ago
        Uber gave a month of free rides (~$25 limit I believe) when they came in my market a few years ago. Lyft had gotten their the month before and only offered like 3 free rides. They were crushed.
jaryd 11y ago
The job postings they have in Pittsburgh are particularly illuminating: https://www.uber.com/jobs/list?keywords=&location=Pittsburgh,%20PA%20[Advanced%20Technologies%20Center] https://www.uber.com/jobs/list?keywords=&location=Pittsburgh...
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  There was a good article recently about Uber commandeering pretty much the entire robotics department at CMU; http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/5/19/8622831/uber-self-driving-cars-carnegie-mellon-poached http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/5/19/8622831/ube...
dsfyu404ed 11y ago
Those researchers won't tell uber things uber wants to hear. If they're serious about security they're basically looking at fundamental changes in the way automotive electronics systems are implemented or various ugly workarounds. You can't just plug anything in to the internet and expect it to be ok...
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  The flip side is that these researchers also won't tell the public things uber doesn't want them to hear.
MikaHakki32 11y ago
Two ... made me spontanously smile. Uber and even more so the automotive industrie needs quite some more. All the IoT industrie. Kids in the candy shop.
- argonaut 11y ago
  These two happen to be accomplished experts known by most people in the security community. That's why it's news. Uber almost certainly has many, many more engineers working on security.
  - libber 11y ago
    We sure do. Feel free to apply here at https://www.uber.com/jobs/28017 https://www.uber.com/jobs/28017 :)
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Uber seems to be the Mirror Universe's Google (think Star Trek's Mirror Universe, where humans formed a brutal empire instead of utopian society of explorers). Both companies found a way to make truckloads of money, and are now using it on (among other things) robotics research.

67 points by chermanowicz 11y ago

mey 11y ago

Not sure if this has been well known before (I don't follow uber much) but I find it very interesting that Uber is doubling down on self driving cars. It makes fantastic sense for what they are doing, but as an "employee"/"contractor" driving for them, I'd be looking at options long term.

andyfleming 11y ago
Surprisingly, I've found that a number of uber drivers seem to be aware of the fact that they will ultimately become obsolete yet are fine just riding the wave in the meantime.
- cjbprime 11y ago
  Do you mean that you asked them while they were driving for you and this is what they said? (That's not a good mechanism for finding out how service workers actually feel about their jobs.)
  - andyfleming 11y ago
    As I recall, I've asked personal friends that drive for the service as well as individuals driving me. Additionally, I've found that most uber drivers are pretty open about sharing their opinions about uber, competitors, etc.
- dfc 11y ago
  That is what I would expect to hear. I would be surprised to hear that the drivers were unhappy in the interim to have a job. Keep in mind this is a job with significant autonomy, i.e. variable/flexible schedule and little to no managerial supervision, and yet it does not require any rigorous training, previous work experience or advanced certification. What percentage of current uber drivers do you think will stop being uber drivers because cars will drive themselves? How far out in the future do you think that is?
  - uptown 11y ago
    6 years for widespread autonomous vehicles on our roads. 2030 for the majority of vehicles sold being fully autonomous capable.
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  This is true for literally all unskilled labor. Most such workers are aware that it's only a matter of time before technology makes them obsolete. The older ones may be able to ride the wave until they retire, but those who are in their 30s and early 40s are in for a rude awakening within the next ten years or so.
wkcamp 11y ago
Just to add on, think of how much more centralized the company's model becomes. A self-driving car probably won't depend on third-party drivers and Uber can start intaking a lot more cash from its services (of course, maintenance and such costs may increase).
- wpietri 11y ago
  You're also neglecting capital costs. I think Uber's major business innovation is shifting almost all of the cost and risk onto drivers by selling them "independence" and "great money". Previously, cab companies had to buy and maintain fleets of expensive cars; the biggest risk a driver took was the cost of one shift's rental. Now some are in hock for tens of thousands of dollars. And possibly millions given that they are no longer covered by taxi company insurance. Honestly, I think it's more risk than opportunity for them. Once driverless cars are ubiquitous, the barrier to entry will be pretty low. Currently to compete with Uber you need to sign up a bunch of drivers, trick them into paying most of your expenses, and then pay them just barely enough to keep them from quitting. But if all it takes is money for cars and the ability to buy an app, anybody with a strong brand and access to capital can go after them. Imagine, for example, you're BMW's CEO. You can build custom cars tuned for taxi service. You know the in-car software very, very well. You have a mess of industrial designers and deep research on customer motivations. Whenever normal-market orders dip, you just keep building for your taxi fleet and occasionally declare war on Uber in a new major city when you can flood it with shiny cars. You already have a service network and get parts at cost. You have incredible access to capital, great relationships with millions of existing consumers, and one of the world's strongest brands. Wouldn't it be tempting to say, "Fuck it, we've been in the transportation business for 100 years! This is just the next step."
  - tptacek 11y ago
    This is not really how a lot of cab companies work. Drivers can end up leasing cars or medallions from cab companies too. Cab drivers get screwed by cab companies, which are, contrary to the narrative that needs a counterbalance to Uber as the "bad guy", not corporate model citizens.
calcsam 11y ago
The average Uber driver is on the platform for 6 months. I don't think any of their drivers are too concerned with what the company is going to do 5 years from now.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  How much driver runway does Uber have left at that churn rate?
  - uptown 11y ago
    Not sure, but that churn rate may also be impacted by these changes they seem destined to make in order to drive profitability: https://twitter.com/NeilAnAlien/status/627873374505562112 https://twitter.com/NeilAnAlien/status/627873374505562112
    - sk5t 11y ago
      In other words, Uber would like to create a lucrative monopsony... nevertheless one imagines they are already doing their damndest to extract maximum value from the market while both maintaining overall market growth.
      - uptown 11y ago
        Their usual strategy is to enter a new market, and pay drivers a higher rate and charge customers a lower rate (or provide discounts and coupons) to encourage growth. Once they're established, adjust those rates until they balance supply/demand. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLcMATPUsAAWceX.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLcMATPUsAAWceX.jpg:large
        DarthMader 11y ago
        Uber gave a month of free rides (~$25 limit I believe) when they came in my market a few years ago. Lyft had gotten their the month before and only offered like 3 free rides. They were crushed.

jaryd 11y ago

The job postings they have in Pittsburgh are particularly illuminating: https://www.uber.com/jobs/list?keywords=&location=Pittsburgh,%20PA%20[Advanced%20Technologies%20Center] https://www.uber.com/jobs/list?keywords=&location=Pittsburgh...

mikeyouse 11y ago
There was a good article recently about Uber commandeering pretty much the entire robotics department at CMU; http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/5/19/8622831/uber-self-driving-cars-carnegie-mellon-poached http://www.theverge.com/transportation/2015/5/19/8622831/ube...

dsfyu404ed 11y ago

Those researchers won't tell uber things uber wants to hear. If they're serious about security they're basically looking at fundamental changes in the way automotive electronics systems are implemented or various ugly workarounds. You can't just plug anything in to the internet and expect it to be ok...

HappyTypist 11y ago
The flip side is that these researchers also won't tell the public things uber doesn't want them to hear.

MikaHakki32 11y ago

Two ... made me spontanously smile. Uber and even more so the automotive industrie needs quite some more. All the IoT industrie. Kids in the candy shop.

argonaut 11y ago
These two happen to be accomplished experts known by most people in the security community. That's why it's news. Uber almost certainly has many, many more engineers working on security.
- libber 11y ago
  We sure do. Feel free to apply here at https://www.uber.com/jobs/28017 https://www.uber.com/jobs/28017 :)

TeMPOraL 11y ago

Uber seems to be the Mirror Universe's Google (think Star Trek's Mirror Universe, where humans formed a brutal empire instead of utopian society of explorers). Both companies found a way to make truckloads of money, and are now using it on (among other things) robotics research.