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Pay was great? Really? Maybe it's true for Seattle. I've done an internship at AWS couple years back and I chose not to return for fulltime, while two of my col

Pay was great? Really? Maybe it's true for Seattle. I've done an internship at AWS couple years back and I chose not to return for fulltime, while two of my colleagues did. We're all in california and they both left Amazon before this summer. Why? Maybe because they're paid 20% less than I do? And one of them told me most people in his office only got 3% raise in salary each year.

Alupis 11y ago
Cost of living is substantially higher in Silicon Valley/CA than in WA state (maybe not Seattle itself, but in general). So it's natural to have differences in pay. In reality, you and your friends probably made around the same amount after all living expenses were paid, etc... Basically $60K (or whatever salary) isn't $60K everywhere, it's relative. It's a reason why some "put their time in" working in SV, then move to Nebraska or something for a comfortable living.
- tomtang0514 11y ago
  Are you carefully reading my comment? I said we are all in California, one of them is in Amazon Irvine while the other is in Amazon Palo Alto. And before you make any further guess, I'm in Redwood City not San Francisco. So there's no reason they should be paid 20% less. In addition, this is just one year after we all graduated, if we keep the same growth rate for 5 years they're going to make 40% less than me. It's just not competitive at all.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - philjr 11y ago
    Plural of anecdote is not data, right? ;) As someone who competes against them for talent, and having seen dozens of examples from different parts of their business, Amazon is an extremely competitive employer on the tech side for experienced employees. They typically pay nicely above market
- moron4hire 11y ago
  Geography arguments for salary discrepancies aren't compelling. Equal pay for equal work. My work won't be any different if I do it from DC or Des Moines.
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    I understand where you're coming from (and I counteracted an apparent downvote of your comment), but I don't think you're entirely right. Mostly, maybe, but not entirely. There is a value in having good people work in the same room. I think it's overvalued, but it's not zero. And if companies want to hire a top engineer in the Bay Area, they're simply going to have to pay more than if they want to hire an engineer in Des Moines: Competition for good local employees is much higher, and higher competition for fewer resources means that the rate for those resources will go up. If you're a senior developer in the Bay Area right now making less than $115k, you're not trying hard to get a raise. If you're in Des Moines making $115k, you're in the long tail; the 90th percentile is $108k. [1] The MEDIAN in San Francisco is $115k. [2] And that doesn't even fully capture the state of the industry, because there are a few employers who go well beyond the median. Most senior engineers I know who are working at one of: Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, or Twitter, earn over $200k (total compensation, counting stock grants), and many earn closer to $500k. Des Moines doesn't have major campuses of any of the above employers (correct me if I'm wrong), so the increased salary pressure from the high rolling Internet companies isn't affecting the local market. Would love it if more big companies would hire remote workers; it would "spread the money" around the country more evenly, they could probably find developers for less, and it would reduce the amount of greenhouse gasses wasted on commuting. But until they do, a significant fraction of the best developers will congregate in the Bay Area, where they can potentially pull in $500k/year instead of a pathetic $95k. Because good developers are worth that much in value to the company, and any good developer making less than $120k is being exploited. Even in Des Moines. [1] http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Salary-Details-Des-Moines-IA.aspx http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Sal... [2] http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Sal...
    - 11y ago
SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
I was an SDE III, and I had some hard-to-find skills. I'm also a crazy awesome developer who they decided they REALLY wanted to come in full time after I'd done a few months of contract work. Total comp was comfortably past $250k/year, counting signing bonus and stock. I was based in Seattle, though I worked from remote. I was told I could have made Principal within a year if I were willing to move to Seattle. Which I wasn't.
- capex 11y ago
  Working remotely might've been a factor in your Amazon experience.
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    Granted. It actually got me out of the evil mandatory "on-call" experience. Someone on my team actually quit without notice three days after he was first forced to go through an on-call week. So I don't want to sugar-coat it: It was everyone's least favorite activity.
- sah2ed 11y ago
  > I was an SDE III, and I had some hard-to-find skills. Mind highlighting what those "hard-to-find" skills were?
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    In my case, Android NDK (C/C++ development) and low-level video streaming.

Alupis 11y ago

Cost of living is substantially higher in Silicon Valley/CA than in WA state (maybe not Seattle itself, but in general). So it's natural to have differences in pay. In reality, you and your friends probably made around the same amount after all living expenses were paid, etc... Basically $60K (or whatever salary) isn't $60K everywhere, it's relative. It's a reason why some "put their time in" working in SV, then move to Nebraska or something for a comfortable living.

tomtang0514 11y ago
Are you carefully reading my comment? I said we are all in California, one of them is in Amazon Irvine while the other is in Amazon Palo Alto. And before you make any further guess, I'm in Redwood City not San Francisco. So there's no reason they should be paid 20% less. In addition, this is just one year after we all graduated, if we keep the same growth rate for 5 years they're going to make 40% less than me. It's just not competitive at all.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- philjr 11y ago
  Plural of anecdote is not data, right? ;) As someone who competes against them for talent, and having seen dozens of examples from different parts of their business, Amazon is an extremely competitive employer on the tech side for experienced employees. They typically pay nicely above market
moron4hire 11y ago
Geography arguments for salary discrepancies aren't compelling. Equal pay for equal work. My work won't be any different if I do it from DC or Des Moines.
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  I understand where you're coming from (and I counteracted an apparent downvote of your comment), but I don't think you're entirely right. Mostly, maybe, but not entirely. There is a value in having good people work in the same room. I think it's overvalued, but it's not zero. And if companies want to hire a top engineer in the Bay Area, they're simply going to have to pay more than if they want to hire an engineer in Des Moines: Competition for good local employees is much higher, and higher competition for fewer resources means that the rate for those resources will go up. If you're a senior developer in the Bay Area right now making less than $115k, you're not trying hard to get a raise. If you're in Des Moines making $115k, you're in the long tail; the 90th percentile is $108k. [1] The MEDIAN in San Francisco is $115k. [2] And that doesn't even fully capture the state of the industry, because there are a few employers who go well beyond the median. Most senior engineers I know who are working at one of: Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, or Twitter, earn over $200k (total compensation, counting stock grants), and many earn closer to $500k. Des Moines doesn't have major campuses of any of the above employers (correct me if I'm wrong), so the increased salary pressure from the high rolling Internet companies isn't affecting the local market. Would love it if more big companies would hire remote workers; it would "spread the money" around the country more evenly, they could probably find developers for less, and it would reduce the amount of greenhouse gasses wasted on commuting. But until they do, a significant fraction of the best developers will congregate in the Bay Area, where they can potentially pull in $500k/year instead of a pathetic $95k. Because good developers are worth that much in value to the company, and any good developer making less than $120k is being exploited. Even in Des Moines. [1] http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Salary-Details-Des-Moines-IA.aspx http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Sal... [2] http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Engineer-III-Sal...
  - 11y ago

SomeCallMeTim 11y ago

I was an SDE III, and I had some hard-to-find skills. I'm also a crazy awesome developer who they decided they REALLY wanted to come in full time after I'd done a few months of contract work. Total comp was comfortably past $250k/year, counting signing bonus and stock. I was based in Seattle, though I worked from remote. I was told I could have made Principal within a year if I were willing to move to Seattle. Which I wasn't.

capex 11y ago
Working remotely might've been a factor in your Amazon experience.
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  Granted. It actually got me out of the evil mandatory "on-call" experience. Someone on my team actually quit without notice three days after he was first forced to go through an on-call week. So I don't want to sugar-coat it: It was everyone's least favorite activity.
sah2ed 11y ago
> I was an SDE III, and I had some hard-to-find skills. Mind highlighting what those "hard-to-find" skills were?
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  In my case, Android NDK (C/C++ development) and low-level video streaming.