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Advantages compared to ... Go: Generic type-safe highly efficient code. Can go lower-level like inline assembly. Can go higher-level because more meta programm

by qznc 11y ago

Advantages compared to ... Go: Generic type-safe highly efficient code. Can go lower-level like inline assembly. Can go higher-level because more meta programming. Python: Faster. Static typing. Ruby: See Python. Java: Less boilerplate. More control over memory management. More meta programming. Natively compiled. Rust: Easier. Garbage collection makes programming just as safe and is easier to use. Looks and feels more like C/C++/Java, if you already know them. More meta programming. (of course, downsides of D are omitted ;)

pcwalton 11y ago
Rust's safety is not limited to memory safety; you get data race freedom too. But the memory safety is the same (assuming you opt into SafeD).
pjmlp 11y ago
Java is also native compiled. Language != Implementation. OpenJDK is only the reference implementation. There are plenty of commercial implementations with AOT compilers. Edit: did not write != properly
- qznc 11y ago
  Yes, but it shows that the language was designed for interpretation. E.g. lazy static initializers is weird in AOT compilation.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    It is not weird in functional programming languages.
    - qznc 11y ago
      I think you misunderstood me, because I used "lazy". It has nothing to do with Haskell lazyness. In Java static fields are initialized when a class is loaded by the class loader. A class is only loaded when used. If anything (IO,scheduler,etc) changes the order in which classes are used, then initializers are called in a different order and their side effects as well. This semantic is mandatory by language definition. In a Java AOT compiler this means every access to a static field must be prefixed with a (synchronized) check if the class is already initialized and optimizing it away is rarely possible. A JIT compiler does not even care, because it knows the class is already loaded. For contrast, in C++ static fields are all initialized before main is called.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        Actually I don't know how the current AOT compilers approach that situation. Now with Oracle taking the steps to eventually make AOT compilation also a feature in the reference JDK, I suppose whatever issues might still exist they will be tackled.
NhanH 11y ago
Can you expand on the downside part of D?
- qznc 11y ago
  Downsides compared to ... All of them: Language is more complex and takes longer to learn. Less community. Less libraries. Python: D cannot be as close to pseudo code, mostly due to static types. Rust: Borrow checking looks like a nice idea. The question is, if the cost is worth it. As a language, I think D is clearly better than Java and Go. Go has better tooling. For example, go-fmt is production quality, while dfmt is alpha quality.

by qznc 11y ago

pcwalton 11y ago

Rust's safety is not limited to memory safety; you get data race freedom too. But the memory safety is the same (assuming you opt into SafeD).

pjmlp 11y ago

Java is also native compiled. Language != Implementation. OpenJDK is only the reference implementation. There are plenty of commercial implementations with AOT compilers. Edit: did not write != properly

qznc 11y ago
Yes, but it shows that the language was designed for interpretation. E.g. lazy static initializers is weird in AOT compilation.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  It is not weird in functional programming languages.
  - qznc 11y ago
    I think you misunderstood me, because I used "lazy". It has nothing to do with Haskell lazyness. In Java static fields are initialized when a class is loaded by the class loader. A class is only loaded when used. If anything (IO,scheduler,etc) changes the order in which classes are used, then initializers are called in a different order and their side effects as well. This semantic is mandatory by language definition. In a Java AOT compiler this means every access to a static field must be prefixed with a (synchronized) check if the class is already initialized and optimizing it away is rarely possible. A JIT compiler does not even care, because it knows the class is already loaded. For contrast, in C++ static fields are all initialized before main is called.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      Actually I don't know how the current AOT compilers approach that situation. Now with Oracle taking the steps to eventually make AOT compilation also a feature in the reference JDK, I suppose whatever issues might still exist they will be tackled.

NhanH 11y ago

Can you expand on the downside part of D?

qznc 11y ago
Downsides compared to ... All of them: Language is more complex and takes longer to learn. Less community. Less libraries. Python: D cannot be as close to pseudo code, mostly due to static types. Rust: Borrow checking looks like a nice idea. The question is, if the cost is worth it. As a language, I think D is clearly better than Java and Go. Go has better tooling. For example, go-fmt is production quality, while dfmt is alpha quality.