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I've asked this question before on HN and was down voted mercilessly, so I'll try to rephrase. Why does everyone point to Zen as such a significant work? I've

I've asked this question before on HN and was down voted mercilessly, so I'll try to rephrase. Why does everyone point to Zen as such a significant work? I've tried to read it on 3 separate occasions now, and I'm not "getting it". I'm fully willing to be completely wrong about this, but it frustrates me that Pirsig focuses so much on what I read as "the absolute value of quality" when - IMHO, it's merely a relative term. I get the point he's making early in the book about "doing it yourself" vs "buying it", but as the book goes on I get more and more frustrated with what appears to me to be the central premise. Can you point me to a "guide to reading 'Zen'" or something similar which can show me where I'm going wrong?

glibgil 11y ago
Why don't you just finish reading the book or just leave it alone? I understand there are books that are hard to read, but this is very much a do-or-don't thing. How can we help you finish a book? Just read it or don't. Edit: I'm getting down-voted so let me put a fine point on it. Reading a book is a pretty low risk commitment. You could be reading dozens of a books a year. The book we are talking about is considered to be a "great American novel" and less risky still. No one should have to convince you to finish it. If you don't like it enough to finish it, then don't bother. http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/ http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/
- chadgeidel 11y ago
  I'm not down voting you, but you didn't actually answer my question. I didn't ask for help to finish the book. I asked for perspective why it's a "great novel".
  - glibgil 11y ago
    I know, but the idea of struggling with a book? Can't you just think about it after you finish reading it?
    - zardo 11y ago
      You can't just hold the entirety of the massive brain dump that is a novel in your head at once. You have to stop and think along the way. Or at least, I do.
  - jschwartzi 11y ago
    Because problem solving isn't finding the right action so much as finding the right perspective.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  Agree with 'dozens of books a year' but there are thousands and thousands of good books out there and one has to triage.
radiorental 11y ago
I think there might be some insight in this video that might help you put a deeper perspective on the book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xg5O0l7ybY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xg5O0l7ybY (specifically the quote about playing music)
keithflower 11y ago
> Can you point me to a "guide to reading 'Zen'" or something similar which can show me where I'm going wrong? "Guidebook to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance": http://www.amazon.com/Guidebook-Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance/dp/0688060692 http://www.amazon.com/Guidebook-Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenan... Both Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and the Guidebook are highly recommended. Just read.
- chadgeidel 11y ago
  Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for!
TheGrimDerp1 11y ago
There is a series of excellent talks on youtube by a guy named Alan Watts from the early 50s - highly recommend.
kragen 11y ago
Maybe it's not that you don't get the book; maybe you just disagree with it to such an extent that it infuriates you, just as its author disagreed with Plato.
ninkendo 11y ago
IMO the whole "metaphysics of quality" thing needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. As you find out later in the book, he actually was diagnosed as schizophrenic (and went through electroshock therapy as a result), and it becomes pretty clear throughout the book that his whole thesis doesn't actually make any sense, and is more the ramblings of an insane person. There's a few insights to be taken from the book but I largely agree with you that after reading it a few times, it's not worth the praise that it gets.
gdubs 11y ago
Without going to deep into the book (which to be honest is one of the most difficult books I've ever read), I was thinking here of a passage in which he describes fixing his engine and paying close, mindful attention to every step. He makes a comment about how the next great invention could come from an observation about the most mundane thing -- and I really believe that to be true. Some of the best ideas come when we're in the midst of flow in our work. Realizing that the mundane details of our work hold a lot of beauty -- when we really slow down and pay attention -- is a liberating idea.

glibgil 11y ago

Why don't you just finish reading the book or just leave it alone? I understand there are books that are hard to read, but this is very much a do-or-don't thing. How can we help you finish a book? Just read it or don't. Edit: I'm getting down-voted so let me put a fine point on it. Reading a book is a pretty low risk commitment. You could be reading dozens of a books a year. The book we are talking about is considered to be a "great American novel" and less risky still. No one should have to convince you to finish it. If you don't like it enough to finish it, then don't bother. http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/ http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/

chadgeidel 11y ago
I'm not down voting you, but you didn't actually answer my question. I didn't ask for help to finish the book. I asked for perspective why it's a "great novel".
- glibgil 11y ago
  I know, but the idea of struggling with a book? Can't you just think about it after you finish reading it?
  - zardo 11y ago
    You can't just hold the entirety of the massive brain dump that is a novel in your head at once. You have to stop and think along the way. Or at least, I do.
- jschwartzi 11y ago
  Because problem solving isn't finding the right action so much as finding the right perspective.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Agree with 'dozens of books a year' but there are thousands and thousands of good books out there and one has to triage.

radiorental 11y ago

I think there might be some insight in this video that might help you put a deeper perspective on the book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xg5O0l7ybY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xg5O0l7ybY (specifically the quote about playing music)

keithflower 11y ago

> Can you point me to a "guide to reading 'Zen'" or something similar which can show me where I'm going wrong? "Guidebook to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance": http://www.amazon.com/Guidebook-Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance/dp/0688060692 http://www.amazon.com/Guidebook-Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenan... Both Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and the Guidebook are highly recommended. Just read.

chadgeidel 11y ago
Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for!

TheGrimDerp1 11y ago

There is a series of excellent talks on youtube by a guy named Alan Watts from the early 50s - highly recommend.

kragen 11y ago

Maybe it's not that you don't get the book; maybe you just disagree with it to such an extent that it infuriates you, just as its author disagreed with Plato.

ninkendo 11y ago

IMO the whole "metaphysics of quality" thing needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. As you find out later in the book, he actually was diagnosed as schizophrenic (and went through electroshock therapy as a result), and it becomes pretty clear throughout the book that his whole thesis doesn't actually make any sense, and is more the ramblings of an insane person. There's a few insights to be taken from the book but I largely agree with you that after reading it a few times, it's not worth the praise that it gets.

gdubs 11y ago

Without going to deep into the book (which to be honest is one of the most difficult books I've ever read), I was thinking here of a passage in which he describes fixing his engine and paying close, mindful attention to every step. He makes a comment about how the next great invention could come from an observation about the most mundane thing -- and I really believe that to be true. Some of the best ideas come when we're in the midst of flow in our work. Realizing that the mundane details of our work hold a lot of beauty -- when we really slow down and pay attention -- is a liberating idea.