3 ms·

Because they hate freedom.

by curi 19y ago

davidw 19y ago
Hacker news should always be about trying to understand why things work the way they do, even if we view them as misguided. A lot of European countries look askance at "cutthroat" competition: http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10430246 http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story... Perhaps the idea is that in some cases, with too much undercutting, a single monopolistic vendor might be able to emerge, having killed off the competition. Which to me seems like a terrible reason to keep laws like this around - worry about the monopoly when it actually happens, and otherwise let the market get on with things.
- curi 19y ago
  I agree that understanding why is important, but I don't think having some silly comments prevents that. Though in this case, what interests me more than why France is primitive, is why we are better. Which part of our traditions prevents us from having this law? While I have general answers to that question, I don't have any answers specific to this particular law. Edit: BTW my comment did allude to a serious answer. They have a different meaning of freedom in France, and are somewhat hostile to our meaning of it.
  - Zak 19y ago
    I think the political forces that led European countries to democracy are much more tied up in class struggle than those that led to the American revolution. As a result, Europeans tend to make laws that keep large businesses from pressing their advantages as much as they can in the US.
    - eru 19y ago
      No, not in general. For example consider those pesky subsidies in agriculture. Huge farms are far better at collecting them than small, family run farms. That's because big business can afford to a law department to hack the laws.
      - Zak 19y ago
        Are you talking about subsidies in the US or in Europe?
        eru 19y ago
        In Europe. Any similarities to the situation in the US are accidental.
- corentin 19y ago
  French people just don't get economics. It's not taught at school except as an option in high school programs, where you're only taught keynesian, if not marxist, economics (french universities are less biased). They're not really good at rational thinking or logic, either. That's why most people actually support taxes and protectionist laws. Sometimes it gets really funny. Amazon.fr has setup a forum to let people discuss about this issue (the legality of free shipping). Nearly all people there praise Amazon for the quality of its service, for how it helps disabled people and country-living people to read books, etc. Yet, for some reason they feel like they have to save the inefficient bookshops just because they're small. They'll say that Amazon is the greatest thing and frown upon capitalism in the same sentence.
  - davidw 19y ago
    Makes sense - and you're from France yourself, or am I mistaken? This is relevant: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/01/the_miseducation_of_amelie_and.cfm http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/01/the_mise...
    - corentin 19y ago
      Yes, I'm french. The Economist article is right. I even remember having been taught, in biology classes in middle-school (something like 10 years ago), that AIDS was designed by the Pentagon or some other US agency to kill people in the third world (supposedly, for some imperialist or racist purpose). In history classes, I've been taught that the US basically went to WWII just to "steal" the world's gold reserves. It were exceptions, though; most teachers are decent. Still, I expect today's teachers to tell kids that GMOs are a very bad and dangerous thing and that organic food is the way of the future. It's very sad because, despite this lack of rational thinking, we still have some very good scientists in France. But they're completely ignored by the population. When Claude Allegre, an eminent geologist and political figure, started to say controversial stuff about global warming, instead of thinking "maybe we should listen to one of our best scientists" the reaction was more like "oh, buzz of you and your science!"
      - 19y ago

Because they hate freedom.

by curi 19y ago

Because they hate freedom.

Hacker news should always be about trying to understand why things work the way they do, even if we view them as misguided. A lot of European countries look askance at "cutthroat" competition: http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10430246 http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story... Perhaps the idea is that in some cases, with too much undercutting, a single monopolistic vendor might be able to emerge, having killed off the competition. Which to me seems like a terrible reason to keep laws like this around - worry about the monopoly when it actually happens, and otherwise let the market get on with things.

curi 19y ago
I agree that understanding why is important, but I don't think having some silly comments prevents that. Though in this case, what interests me more than why France is primitive, is why we are better. Which part of our traditions prevents us from having this law? While I have general answers to that question, I don't have any answers specific to this particular law. Edit: BTW my comment did allude to a serious answer. They have a different meaning of freedom in France, and are somewhat hostile to our meaning of it.
- Zak 19y ago
  I think the political forces that led European countries to democracy are much more tied up in class struggle than those that led to the American revolution. As a result, Europeans tend to make laws that keep large businesses from pressing their advantages as much as they can in the US.
  - eru 19y ago
    No, not in general. For example consider those pesky subsidies in agriculture. Huge farms are far better at collecting them than small, family run farms. That's because big business can afford to a law department to hack the laws.
    - Zak 19y ago
      Are you talking about subsidies in the US or in Europe?
      - eru 19y ago
        In Europe. Any similarities to the situation in the US are accidental.
corentin 19y ago
French people just don't get economics. It's not taught at school except as an option in high school programs, where you're only taught keynesian, if not marxist, economics (french universities are less biased). They're not really good at rational thinking or logic, either. That's why most people actually support taxes and protectionist laws. Sometimes it gets really funny. Amazon.fr has setup a forum to let people discuss about this issue (the legality of free shipping). Nearly all people there praise Amazon for the quality of its service, for how it helps disabled people and country-living people to read books, etc. Yet, for some reason they feel like they have to save the inefficient bookshops just because they're small. They'll say that Amazon is the greatest thing and frown upon capitalism in the same sentence.
- davidw 19y ago
  Makes sense - and you're from France yourself, or am I mistaken? This is relevant: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/01/the_miseducation_of_amelie_and.cfm http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/01/the_mise...
  - corentin 19y ago
    Yes, I'm french. The Economist article is right. I even remember having been taught, in biology classes in middle-school (something like 10 years ago), that AIDS was designed by the Pentagon or some other US agency to kill people in the third world (supposedly, for some imperialist or racist purpose). In history classes, I've been taught that the US basically went to WWII just to "steal" the world's gold reserves. It were exceptions, though; most teachers are decent. Still, I expect today's teachers to tell kids that GMOs are a very bad and dangerous thing and that organic food is the way of the future. It's very sad because, despite this lack of rational thinking, we still have some very good scientists in France. But they're completely ignored by the population. When Claude Allegre, an eminent geologist and political figure, started to say controversial stuff about global warming, instead of thinking "maybe we should listen to one of our best scientists" the reaction was more like "oh, buzz of you and your science!"
    - 19y ago