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> 2: Go to, say, Ravenna, Italy Not to pick on Italy, but: http://ycharts.com/indicators/italy_youth_unemployment_rate_lfs http://ycharts.com/indicators/italy

by jbuzbee 11y ago

> 2: Go to, say, Ravenna, Italy Not to pick on Italy, but: http://ycharts.com/indicators/italy_youth_unemployment_rate_lfs http://ycharts.com/indicators/italy_youth_unemployment_rate_... So I wouldn't exactly want to model my economy on Italy. >If you're still unconvinced, ask a European... I've spent a lot of time in Europe and had long discussions in the pubs. Great times, nice folks, and I look forward to visiting again. but I still prefer the US.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
You're still missing the point. My family in Gaeta knows the economy has been rough for a while, and yet their (and Italy's) strong social ties have kept society together in ways GDP and unemployment figures can't measure. Contrast with China, where growth is less than double digits and everybody's losing their mind. GDP doesn't explain why someone on the street dying from a car crash can be ignored by hundreds of people who walk by because they don't want to get involved in something that isn't their problem (punitive laws that potentially transfer liabilities to involved bystanders don't help). Society is more than economy. People often choose benefits to their society that tax economic growth, like preventing acid rain. If something seems irrevocably inconsistent about someone's decision, then I question the extent to which you choose to think from their perspective.
andybak 11y ago
Just by way of comparison - Brit here. I'd choose to move to many countries over the US for various reasons: 1. Health care cost 2. Crime (especially violent and gun crime) 3. The lack of a political center ground or any sensible centrist discourse. 4. And of course - broadband and mobile data cost/speed ;-) (* http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-King... - although I'm sure those statistics are massively affected by area)

by jbuzbee 11y ago

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

You're still missing the point. My family in Gaeta knows the economy has been rough for a while, and yet their (and Italy's) strong social ties have kept society together in ways GDP and unemployment figures can't measure. Contrast with China, where growth is less than double digits and everybody's losing their mind. GDP doesn't explain why someone on the street dying from a car crash can be ignored by hundreds of people who walk by because they don't want to get involved in something that isn't their problem (punitive laws that potentially transfer liabilities to involved bystanders don't help). Society is more than economy. People often choose benefits to their society that tax economic growth, like preventing acid rain. If something seems irrevocably inconsistent about someone's decision, then I question the extent to which you choose to think from their perspective.

andybak 11y ago

Just by way of comparison - Brit here. I'd choose to move to many countries over the US for various reasons: 1. Health care cost 2. Crime (especially violent and gun crime) 3. The lack of a political center ground or any sensible centrist discourse. 4. And of course - broadband and mobile data cost/speed ;-) (* http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-King... - although I'm sure those statistics are massively affected by area)