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Maybe women and men are not as different as you think? Maybe women like hookups just as much as men do, and it's our environment (society, "norms", tv, the fact

Maybe women and men are not as different as you think? Maybe women like hookups just as much as men do, and it's our environment (society, "norms", tv, the fact that "slut" is an insult, &c) that makes you think otherwise? Asking women is not the answer here, because you still go through that societal filter. Besides, rarely does someone know what they want, in the first place. "Ask a customer what they want, and they'll say they want a faster horse."

lqdc13 11y ago
The article makes an implicit assumption that girls don't want a fling and want marriage instead. Then it argues that it is because the ratios are skewed. I am arguing that the ratios are only skewed if they look in the places where the ratios are skewed. It is possible that the assumption is not correct, but then the whole argument about the ratios being skewed makes no sense, because the "fling problem" disappears.
- simonh 11y ago
  >I am arguing that the ratios are only skewed if they look in the places where the ratios are skewed. well It's a US article and they give the sats for the US, as well as some major metropolitan areas. Where else should they be looking? >The article makes an implicit assumption that girls don't want a fling and want marriage instead. They do address this, for Silicon valley they show that in an area where the gender ratio favours women there are more marriages which are more stable. It's just one data point, but addresses your concern and this is an article not a study.
  - lqdc13 11y ago
    Ok, first of all, the article says that women are forced to look for sex on dating apps, because the ratio of desirable men to desirable women is small. This is not the case, as there are dating apps where the ratio of desirable men to desirable women is large and where LTR is emphasized compared to instant sex. Women aren't using these sites/apps. So either the assumptions about women are wrong, or the argument that women are in this terrible situation where there are not enough educated men on dating sites looking for a LTR and where women are forced to have sex to possibly get to a relationship is incorrect.
    - simonh 11y ago
      In order to show that women are having a hard time finding men, the number of women on dating apps doesn't have to be larger than the number of men. It just has to be larger than it would otherwise be. But that raises an interesting point. It would be useful to know the gender ration for Tinder users in the Valley compared to e.g. the gender ratio in NY. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful chat.
- CmonDev 11y ago
  Nobody jokes about an old surgeon man with cats/dogs drinking wine/beer alone in the evening.
rmc 11y ago
> Asking women is not the answer here I'd add a big "but" here. There are pleanty of women who speak out and say that, yes, sometimes women just want a fling. Ask a woman who identifies as a feminist. They are usually less concerned with upholding traditional gender roles, and often can speak freerer. However you're right that the societal filter can apply. If a conservative older, more powerful, man asks a woman (e.g. a 40 y.o. boss asking a 20 y.o. new employee), then yes, sometimes people don't tell the boss everything. A general advise of "don't listen to women!" is very disturbing.
- reitzensteinm 11y ago
  The general advice is don't listen to people when they say what they want.
- konstruktor 11y ago
  I agree that the general advice is disturbing. However, looking at grandparent's post, I highly doubt that he asked the question in a way that indicated a judgement free response to the answer. This will not get him honest answers.

lqdc13 11y ago

The article makes an implicit assumption that girls don't want a fling and want marriage instead. Then it argues that it is because the ratios are skewed. I am arguing that the ratios are only skewed if they look in the places where the ratios are skewed. It is possible that the assumption is not correct, but then the whole argument about the ratios being skewed makes no sense, because the "fling problem" disappears.

simonh 11y ago
>I am arguing that the ratios are only skewed if they look in the places where the ratios are skewed. well It's a US article and they give the sats for the US, as well as some major metropolitan areas. Where else should they be looking? >The article makes an implicit assumption that girls don't want a fling and want marriage instead. They do address this, for Silicon valley they show that in an area where the gender ratio favours women there are more marriages which are more stable. It's just one data point, but addresses your concern and this is an article not a study.
- lqdc13 11y ago
  Ok, first of all, the article says that women are forced to look for sex on dating apps, because the ratio of desirable men to desirable women is small. This is not the case, as there are dating apps where the ratio of desirable men to desirable women is large and where LTR is emphasized compared to instant sex. Women aren't using these sites/apps. So either the assumptions about women are wrong, or the argument that women are in this terrible situation where there are not enough educated men on dating sites looking for a LTR and where women are forced to have sex to possibly get to a relationship is incorrect.
  - simonh 11y ago
    In order to show that women are having a hard time finding men, the number of women on dating apps doesn't have to be larger than the number of men. It just has to be larger than it would otherwise be. But that raises an interesting point. It would be useful to know the gender ration for Tinder users in the Valley compared to e.g. the gender ratio in NY. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful chat.
CmonDev 11y ago
Nobody jokes about an old surgeon man with cats/dogs drinking wine/beer alone in the evening.

rmc 11y ago

> Asking women is not the answer here I'd add a big "but" here. There are pleanty of women who speak out and say that, yes, sometimes women just want a fling. Ask a woman who identifies as a feminist. They are usually less concerned with upholding traditional gender roles, and often can speak freerer. However you're right that the societal filter can apply. If a conservative older, more powerful, man asks a woman (e.g. a 40 y.o. boss asking a 20 y.o. new employee), then yes, sometimes people don't tell the boss everything. A general advise of "don't listen to women!" is very disturbing.

reitzensteinm 11y ago
The general advice is don't listen to people when they say what they want.
konstruktor 11y ago
I agree that the general advice is disturbing. However, looking at grandparent's post, I highly doubt that he asked the question in a way that indicated a judgement free response to the answer. This will not get him honest answers.