4 ms·

Yes, when I'm at a stop sign anywhere near a bike, I'll yield if I'm in a car. Bicyclists are just too unpredictable - sometimes they'll roll the stop sign even

by pfooti 11y ago

Yes, when I'm at a stop sign anywhere near a bike, I'll yield if I'm in a car. Bicyclists are just too unpredictable - sometimes they'll roll the stop sign even if it seems unwise (or maybe they just didn't notice me). So now I just assume all bicyclists I see on the road will ignore all stop signs in their way; it sometimes leads to awkward wave/stops, but better that than running somebody over.

mc32 11y ago
Keep in mind that once you "wave" you assumer responsibility for any accident which might ensue do to your waving people on because others may not be aware of your waving and interrupting expected traffic patterns.
- andrelaszlo 11y ago
  Yes my traffic school instructor told me to never wave. Not because of responsibility, but of the fact that you might have missed something and the person (especially children) might interpret your wave not as "I'll stop until you have passed" but as "road clear, go ahead".
- pfooti 11y ago
  Yah, in general I hate wavers. The problem is that I've experienced bicyclists who just don't follow traffic rules regarding stop, yield, and red lights. Given that I know there's a nonzero probability that a bicycle will intersect with my car if I pull out, I don't go from my stop until I'm pretty sure they're going to stop at the 4-way. As I mentioned in a cousin reply, I once struck a bicyclist who wasn't obeying traffic rules (she blew a stop sign at a 4-way) and was found liable for the accident at least by the officer who wrote the accident report. We're all lucky her injuries weren't major, but there's no way I'm going to risk hitting a biker who is barreling down a hill toward a 4-way by assuming they're going to follow the traffic laws.
barryp 11y ago
As a cyclist, I find it frustrating when cars behave unpredictably. If you get to a 4-way stop before I do, I'm basically planning on timing my crossing to go after you do - and maybe use the delay for a chance to catch my breath. But if a driver suddenly decides throw the 4-way stop etiquette out the window and start directing traffic from behind a windshield I often can't see through clearly because of tinting/my sunglasses/glare-from-the-sun. I'm at a bit of a loss...are they waving me though? talking to a kid in the back seat? messing with their phone? If I go, I'm risking my neck if they were in fact distracted and not waving me though. If I resist going out-of-turn, that's awkward because my feeling is some drivers get frustrated I'm ignoring their attempt to help me out.
- pfooti 11y ago
  As it happens, I learned my own behavior because I once struck a bicyclist who wasn't as predictable as you. I went to a 4-way, stopped, saw a biker approaching the intersection who hadn't stopped yet, and pulled into the intersection. The bicyclist didn't stop, was struck by my car, fell off, went to hospital. She was okay in the long run, but sued over the incident; the police officer who wrote up the event determined that I was at fault (despite eyewitnesses to the contrary) based on the claim that I should have stopped for the bicyclist. At this point, given that bikes are known to do this I really don't have any choice in the matter. I'm glad I didn't kill anyone - head trauma can be really tricky. I'm concerned that I was the victim of insurance fraud (she really did run out in front of me). My insurance company just settled the complaint - didn't want to get deep into litigation over a matter of hearsay and he-said-she-said. So, what should I do? If it's a car approaching a 4-way, I assume they will follow traffic laws. If it's a bike, I'm not so certain. My experience isn't just that one time in berkeley I hit someone, now that I live in SF, there's plenty of times when I've observed bicyclists taking their lives into their own hands and dodging traffic without obeying stop signs and red lights.
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I hate wavers. They include among their number, those that are planning to run over bicyclists. I can't distinguish between the two sets, and a false negative means I die. So no, I'm not going to go first even if you wave at me.

by pfooti 11y ago

mc32 11y ago

Keep in mind that once you "wave" you assumer responsibility for any accident which might ensue do to your waving people on because others may not be aware of your waving and interrupting expected traffic patterns.

andrelaszlo 11y ago
Yes my traffic school instructor told me to never wave. Not because of responsibility, but of the fact that you might have missed something and the person (especially children) might interpret your wave not as "I'll stop until you have passed" but as "road clear, go ahead".
pfooti 11y ago
Yah, in general I hate wavers. The problem is that I've experienced bicyclists who just don't follow traffic rules regarding stop, yield, and red lights. Given that I know there's a nonzero probability that a bicycle will intersect with my car if I pull out, I don't go from my stop until I'm pretty sure they're going to stop at the 4-way. As I mentioned in a cousin reply, I once struck a bicyclist who wasn't obeying traffic rules (she blew a stop sign at a 4-way) and was found liable for the accident at least by the officer who wrote the accident report. We're all lucky her injuries weren't major, but there's no way I'm going to risk hitting a biker who is barreling down a hill toward a 4-way by assuming they're going to follow the traffic laws.

barryp 11y ago

As a cyclist, I find it frustrating when cars behave unpredictably. If you get to a 4-way stop before I do, I'm basically planning on timing my crossing to go after you do - and maybe use the delay for a chance to catch my breath. But if a driver suddenly decides throw the 4-way stop etiquette out the window and start directing traffic from behind a windshield I often can't see through clearly because of tinting/my sunglasses/glare-from-the-sun. I'm at a bit of a loss...are they waving me though? talking to a kid in the back seat? messing with their phone? If I go, I'm risking my neck if they were in fact distracted and not waving me though. If I resist going out-of-turn, that's awkward because my feeling is some drivers get frustrated I'm ignoring their attempt to help me out.

pfooti 11y ago
As it happens, I learned my own behavior because I once struck a bicyclist who wasn't as predictable as you. I went to a 4-way, stopped, saw a biker approaching the intersection who hadn't stopped yet, and pulled into the intersection. The bicyclist didn't stop, was struck by my car, fell off, went to hospital. She was okay in the long run, but sued over the incident; the police officer who wrote up the event determined that I was at fault (despite eyewitnesses to the contrary) based on the claim that I should have stopped for the bicyclist. At this point, given that bikes are known to do this I really don't have any choice in the matter. I'm glad I didn't kill anyone - head trauma can be really tricky. I'm concerned that I was the victim of insurance fraud (she really did run out in front of me). My insurance company just settled the complaint - didn't want to get deep into litigation over a matter of hearsay and he-said-she-said. So, what should I do? If it's a car approaching a 4-way, I assume they will follow traffic laws. If it's a bike, I'm not so certain. My experience isn't just that one time in berkeley I hit someone, now that I live in SF, there's plenty of times when I've observed bicyclists taking their lives into their own hands and dodging traffic without obeying stop signs and red lights.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

I hate wavers. They include among their number, those that are planning to run over bicyclists. I can't distinguish between the two sets, and a false negative means I die. So no, I'm not going to go first even if you wave at me.