6 ms·

And GP's point doesn't matter if it's the women doing the hiring.

• harryh 11y ago
  Sure, but which world do we live in?
  • chc 11y ago
    Obviously it's not the whole picture, but I think the most quantitative answer is that the human resources field is one of the most female-dominated out there (source: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf).
    • harryh 11y ago
      HR personnel don't make hiring decisions for programmers.
      • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        In companies I worked, they make a lot of them. HR is part of the panel that votes on a interviewee's fit and also handles a lot of the salary negotiation (which is as important as the whole hiring process). I also detect a 'for programmers' added in that wasn't present before...
        • harryh 11y ago
          Handling negotiations != making decisions.
          • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
            Handling salary negotiations means being able to say 'yes we accept your offer' or 'no, we don't think we can make that work'. That is making a decision.
            • tptacek 11y ago
              They don't even do that. The company positions HR people between candidates and the hiring manager as a way of thwarting negotiation, but the HR person is invariably required to escalate back to the hiring manager if they can't get to "yes". The idea that women have an outsized role in tech job screening because of the demographics of HR is totally specious. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with Rayiner's point.
              • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
                >The idea that women have an outsized role Odd, I never mentioned either side having an outsized role.
                • tptacek 11y ago
                  The notion that HR has any meaningful role in selecting candidates is fallacious. Any appearance of such a role in an HR organization is a deliberately constructed artiface, intended to take the heat off the real decision makers and to trap candidates with poor negotiating skills.
    • tptacek 11y ago
      HR personnel don't make hiring decisions for programmers.
  • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Neither. Hiring is done a thousand different ways involving both genders (and sometimes involving those who don't care to be classified by binary genders). Which group may be in the majority depends upon location and industry and even on the way hiring works; in some cases direct report has 100% control, in some cases direct report has 0% control and HR has all of it.
    • harryh 11y ago
      If you don't think that men are currently making the vast majority of hiring decisions for programmers in the US right now then you are simply unaware of what's going on in the world.
      • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
        I quote myself from another post. >I also detect a 'for programmers' added in that wasn't present before... Also, 'no you're wrong' isn't going to get us anywhere.
        • tptacek 11y ago
          Also a disingenuous argument, as the thread is rooted in an argument about hiring programmers.
          • Lawtonfogle 11y ago
            Odd. See the original article is a discussion of needing people skills for the best jobs, and the branch that started this comment chain was based on someone calling out one gender for rigging the system, to which my only response was to ask if the other gender does not do the same. Programming was not the primary focus here and keeps being brought up to try to prove a claim that wasn't ever actually disagreed with, but which I just asked a question to give some equality to.