3 ms·

I'm a Tesla fan but the 7 series still wins in "recharge" time.

mikeash 11y ago
Well, that depends. Are you counting the sum of all of the time you spend waiting for the car to recharge/refill? If so, and if you're a typical driver, then the Tesla wins. In an average month, you might spend a total of 15 minutes gassing up your car, and zero minutes charging your Tesla (because it's charging while you sleep). On road trips, it will depend on how well charging stops coincide with bathroom/meal/coffee stops. A supercharger stop is both longer and more frequent than a gas stop, no dispute there, but if you time it to coincide with a break that outlasts the charging stop (easy to do) then the time penalty is zero. It's not practical to overlap gas filling with other stuff, so you can even lose out there. Now, if you're the sort who drives five hours at a time without stopping then the gas car can win big on charging time. But even if you do that, unless you take those trips pretty frequently, the Tesla can still win on total time spent filling up.
- johnward 11y ago
  I understand that argument and the stats suggest most people don't need to charge on the road aside from road trips. By the time the Model S would need charged I'd be ready for a 30 minute break anyway. I still have range anxiety when my commute (before going remote) was a minimum of 120 miles per day. I'm not sure how accurate the 200 mile number is to know if it would be enough.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Real-world range can vary based on temperature, elevation, speed, etc. Without knowing the details of that 120 miles, it's hard to say. But you can calculate what you'll actually use with the car's navigation system or a third-party site like EVTripPlanner, and that's pretty accurate. I'd probably be comfortable with a 10% buffer for getting home. Your 120 miles might take 150 "miles" of range, which would still leave you with plenty of margin. Note that the lowest-range model they sell currently is the 70 at 230 miles official range. The maximum is the 90D with about 290 miles official range. Exterior 120V outlets are pretty common, so another option would be to plug into one of those while at work. That makes for slow charging, but you could add another 40 miles or so of range while you're there. (Understanding this is a hypothetical for you at this point.)
  - revelation 11y ago
    If your commute is 120 miles, you don't need a Tesla, you need a new place. Whatever the value of quick refueling, surely your sanity is more important.
    - johnward 11y ago
      I like my place but unfortunately it's not where jobs are. That's why I work remotely for the time being.
jazzyk 11y ago
True, and in the abundance of "charging" stations. But it is the _only_ advantage left (see disclaimer at the end). - Reliability should be much higher with Tesla, as the engine is much simpler. - Ride quality. The 7 is a boat, does not have the agility of smaller, sportier BMW models. - Looks. Obviously subjective, but 7's styling is very conservative and has not changed much. Disclaimer: These two cars are targeted at two quite different (though equally affluent) types of buyers. Some people prefer conservative, some sporty.
- johnward 11y ago
  I'd also say BMW wins in the interior also. At the price point I would still opt for a Tesla but I was commuting 120 miles round trip which gives me slight range anxiety. The P85 is my favorite of all cars I've driven so far.
- fps 11y ago
  People are always touting the "reliability" of electric cars, but that argument mostly falls flat if you're comparing it to any car built in the last 20 years. Internal combustion engines are incredibly reliable. They require basically no maintenance other than oil changes every 5K to 7K miles, and they'll run for 500K miles with no problems. If you're having any sort of engine failure in an internal combustion car built this century, someone is being malicious and trying to break your car. Tesla, on the other hand, has had to recall a percentage of their electric motors because they were ripping themselves apart after 10K miles. All the other parts of the car - the parts that actually still fail on modern vehicles - suspension, electronics, climate control, brakes, drive train, etc. are more complicated in a Tesla than in a regular car. The tesla has an electronically adjustable suspension, remotely upgradable electronics, climate control that doesn't get to run off of excess engine heat and belt driven compressors, two drivetrains (two transmissions and differentials), and regenerative braking. These systems are more complex than normal and only time will tell if they're more reliable than their legacy auto industry equivalents, but my feeling is they won't be.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    Good points, though BMW, specifically, hasn't had the greatest reliability record. Which is pretty appalling for an upscale brand (I am giving the Tesla a pass for now, since its tech is new and different). That's why Lexus (reliability + interiors) is the bees knees. :-)
awestley 11y ago
As a tesla driver and former ICE driver and I disagree about charge time. I used to get gas at least once a week (10-15 minutes each visit). With the home charger I only needed to stop at a changer once, since December. That was for a total of 20 minutes (The car only needed 10 minutes, but I stayed a little longer). Driving an EV car is very different than a gas car, but you get used to it quickly. Just the other day I was driving my ICE car and the gas light turned on. The first thing that popped into my head was "No problem, I'll be home soon". It's funny how quickly you get used to things.

Well, that depends. Are you counting the sum of all of the time you spend waiting for the car to recharge/refill? If so, and if you're a typical driver, then the Tesla wins. In an average month, you might spend a total of 15 minutes gassing up your car, and zero minutes charging your Tesla (because it's charging while you sleep). On road trips, it will depend on how well charging stops coincide with bathroom/meal/coffee stops. A supercharger stop is both longer and more frequent than a gas stop, no dispute there, but if you time it to coincide with a break that outlasts the charging stop (easy to do) then the time penalty is zero. It's not practical to overlap gas filling with other stuff, so you can even lose out there. Now, if you're the sort who drives five hours at a time without stopping then the gas car can win big on charging time. But even if you do that, unless you take those trips pretty frequently, the Tesla can still win on total time spent filling up.

johnward 11y ago
I understand that argument and the stats suggest most people don't need to charge on the road aside from road trips. By the time the Model S would need charged I'd be ready for a 30 minute break anyway. I still have range anxiety when my commute (before going remote) was a minimum of 120 miles per day. I'm not sure how accurate the 200 mile number is to know if it would be enough.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Real-world range can vary based on temperature, elevation, speed, etc. Without knowing the details of that 120 miles, it's hard to say. But you can calculate what you'll actually use with the car's navigation system or a third-party site like EVTripPlanner, and that's pretty accurate. I'd probably be comfortable with a 10% buffer for getting home. Your 120 miles might take 150 "miles" of range, which would still leave you with plenty of margin. Note that the lowest-range model they sell currently is the 70 at 230 miles official range. The maximum is the 90D with about 290 miles official range. Exterior 120V outlets are pretty common, so another option would be to plug into one of those while at work. That makes for slow charging, but you could add another 40 miles or so of range while you're there. (Understanding this is a hypothetical for you at this point.)
- revelation 11y ago
  If your commute is 120 miles, you don't need a Tesla, you need a new place. Whatever the value of quick refueling, surely your sanity is more important.
  - johnward 11y ago
    I like my place but unfortunately it's not where jobs are. That's why I work remotely for the time being.

jazzyk 11y ago

True, and in the abundance of "charging" stations. But it is the _only_ advantage left (see disclaimer at the end). - Reliability should be much higher with Tesla, as the engine is much simpler. - Ride quality. The 7 is a boat, does not have the agility of smaller, sportier BMW models. - Looks. Obviously subjective, but 7's styling is very conservative and has not changed much. Disclaimer: These two cars are targeted at two quite different (though equally affluent) types of buyers. Some people prefer conservative, some sporty.

johnward 11y ago
I'd also say BMW wins in the interior also. At the price point I would still opt for a Tesla but I was commuting 120 miles round trip which gives me slight range anxiety. The P85 is my favorite of all cars I've driven so far.
fps 11y ago
People are always touting the "reliability" of electric cars, but that argument mostly falls flat if you're comparing it to any car built in the last 20 years. Internal combustion engines are incredibly reliable. They require basically no maintenance other than oil changes every 5K to 7K miles, and they'll run for 500K miles with no problems. If you're having any sort of engine failure in an internal combustion car built this century, someone is being malicious and trying to break your car. Tesla, on the other hand, has had to recall a percentage of their electric motors because they were ripping themselves apart after 10K miles. All the other parts of the car - the parts that actually still fail on modern vehicles - suspension, electronics, climate control, brakes, drive train, etc. are more complicated in a Tesla than in a regular car. The tesla has an electronically adjustable suspension, remotely upgradable electronics, climate control that doesn't get to run off of excess engine heat and belt driven compressors, two drivetrains (two transmissions and differentials), and regenerative braking. These systems are more complex than normal and only time will tell if they're more reliable than their legacy auto industry equivalents, but my feeling is they won't be.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Good points, though BMW, specifically, hasn't had the greatest reliability record. Which is pretty appalling for an upscale brand (I am giving the Tesla a pass for now, since its tech is new and different). That's why Lexus (reliability + interiors) is the bees knees. :-)

awestley 11y ago

As a tesla driver and former ICE driver and I disagree about charge time. I used to get gas at least once a week (10-15 minutes each visit). With the home charger I only needed to stop at a changer once, since December. That was for a total of 20 minutes (The car only needed 10 minutes, but I stayed a little longer). Driving an EV car is very different than a gas car, but you get used to it quickly. Just the other day I was driving my ICE car and the gas light turned on. The first thing that popped into my head was "No problem, I'll be home soon". It's funny how quickly you get used to things.