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My biggest issue was the metro stuff; mostly the default apps that would open in full screen mode. Opening a PDF or an image in a new Windows 8 installation wa

My biggest issue was the metro stuff; mostly the default apps that would open in full screen mode. Opening a PDF or an image in a new Windows 8 installation was always a frustrating surprise. The start menu was confusing, and anytime you'd go into a metro-type application it was jarring.

WalterGR 11y ago
Ah. I guess my experience was different because I installed apps that I preferred over the built-in ones and found a start menu replacement.
- tbrock 11y ago
  Wow. Sounds like Microsoft really nailed the experience on that one. Step 1: replace everything with something else.
  - WalterGR 11y ago
    I don't know what you mean. There are pre-installed apps on OS X, Linux, and Windows. If you don't care for the pre-installed ones, you can install ones that you prefer. Same with the kind-of default 'controls' like the Start Menu, or the Dock, or what various Linux distros call their equivalents. Windows 8/8.1 is Windows 7 with a few improvements and some "Metro" stuff that you can almost entirely avoid.
    - banachtarski 11y ago
      Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating system. I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power user so I needed to replace it as well. I consider that a complete failure.
      - WalterGR 11y ago
        Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating system. And I find the OS X Dock to be an utter abomination. I took advantage of the power I have to install software and installed a replacement. I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power user so I needed to replace it as well. Good on you. Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant by, "Step 1: replace everything with something else."
        petersellers 11y ago
        > Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant by, "Step 1: replace everything with something else." If you have to replace things like the "start menu", the built in pdf reader, the built in settings app, etc. etc. all because of the same UI design flaw it starts to feel like you are fighting with the OS to get to the level of productivity with which you were previously accustomed. If you feel the need to have to do that, then something is wrong with the design of the OS. Obviously this is a subjective opinion that can differ for each individual, but considering the horrible adoption rate of Windows 8 it seems likely that this is an opinion shared by many. Objectively, forcing apps to run in fullscreen mode can be a huge waste of real estate for large computer monitors. The gestures required to summon the "charms" bar and the app switcher are completely unintuitive and awkward for a desktop UI. Things like that make far more sense for mobile devices, but it appears like Windows 8 tried to combine mobile and desktop UIs in a confusing, frustrating, an inefficient way. It's quite telling that these were major design errors as Windows 10 backtracks from that philosophy almost completely.
        WorldWideWayne 11y ago
        This type of complaint needs highlight the fact that "design flaws" are a matter of course for any major operating systems. Without doing that, it comes off as a fairly one-sided, myopic point of view. Plenty of people hate the built-in components of OS X like the single Menu bar, the Dock, the Finder and lots of other things. That's why there have always been apps to (attempt to) replace them (unfortunately, Apple typically doesn't give you the same degree of control that Microsoft does). Apple has also back-tracked on many things in OS X, like finally (finally!) giving people the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner (after years and years of telling everybody that having only "one true way" of doing it was somehow better. Just like "one mouse button" was better for everybody until it wasn't. Just like so many things with Apple. They seem to be fond of buttons with no text and just an icon these days. And I've seen a ton of people complain about it. Unfortunately, that would too difficult to replace with a third party app.)
  - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
    You have to add and replace all sorts of things to make OS X usable. Apple just added the ability to resize a window by it's edges a couple of years ago! And there still is no tiling. And the finder still sucks. But it's got the all-important Unix underpinnings and it's not from Micro$oft.
    - Qwertious 11y ago
      This can often apply to Linux, too. So every major desktop OS requires replacing stuff here and there. Not sure what conclusions we can draw from that, though.
      - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
        The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the person I was replying to has no point.
      - kdevrou 11y ago
        It is true that this can apply to Linux as well. There are plenty of distros available that package as little as possible or provide choice during initial installation. That is where I know that Linux wins over everything else. A huge number of applications, where there is always at least 1 good alternative. Microsoft and Apple can't compete on choice.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

WalterGR 11y ago

Ah. I guess my experience was different because I installed apps that I preferred over the built-in ones and found a start menu replacement.

tbrock 11y ago
Wow. Sounds like Microsoft really nailed the experience on that one. Step 1: replace everything with something else.
- WalterGR 11y ago
  I don't know what you mean. There are pre-installed apps on OS X, Linux, and Windows. If you don't care for the pre-installed ones, you can install ones that you prefer. Same with the kind-of default 'controls' like the Start Menu, or the Dock, or what various Linux distros call their equivalents. Windows 8/8.1 is Windows 7 with a few improvements and some "Metro" stuff that you can almost entirely avoid.
  - banachtarski 11y ago
    Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating system. I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power user so I needed to replace it as well. I consider that a complete failure.
    - WalterGR 11y ago
      Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating system. And I find the OS X Dock to be an utter abomination. I took advantage of the power I have to install software and installed a replacement. I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power user so I needed to replace it as well. Good on you. Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant by, "Step 1: replace everything with something else."
      - petersellers 11y ago
        > Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant by, "Step 1: replace everything with something else." If you have to replace things like the "start menu", the built in pdf reader, the built in settings app, etc. etc. all because of the same UI design flaw it starts to feel like you are fighting with the OS to get to the level of productivity with which you were previously accustomed. If you feel the need to have to do that, then something is wrong with the design of the OS. Obviously this is a subjective opinion that can differ for each individual, but considering the horrible adoption rate of Windows 8 it seems likely that this is an opinion shared by many. Objectively, forcing apps to run in fullscreen mode can be a huge waste of real estate for large computer monitors. The gestures required to summon the "charms" bar and the app switcher are completely unintuitive and awkward for a desktop UI. Things like that make far more sense for mobile devices, but it appears like Windows 8 tried to combine mobile and desktop UIs in a confusing, frustrating, an inefficient way. It's quite telling that these were major design errors as Windows 10 backtracks from that philosophy almost completely.
        WorldWideWayne 11y ago
        This type of complaint needs highlight the fact that "design flaws" are a matter of course for any major operating systems. Without doing that, it comes off as a fairly one-sided, myopic point of view. Plenty of people hate the built-in components of OS X like the single Menu bar, the Dock, the Finder and lots of other things. That's why there have always been apps to (attempt to) replace them (unfortunately, Apple typically doesn't give you the same degree of control that Microsoft does). Apple has also back-tracked on many things in OS X, like finally (finally!) giving people the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner (after years and years of telling everybody that having only "one true way" of doing it was somehow better. Just like "one mouse button" was better for everybody until it wasn't. Just like so many things with Apple. They seem to be fond of buttons with no text and just an icon these days. And I've seen a ton of people complain about it. Unfortunately, that would too difficult to replace with a third party app.)
- WorldWideWayne 11y ago
  You have to add and replace all sorts of things to make OS X usable. Apple just added the ability to resize a window by it's edges a couple of years ago! And there still is no tiling. And the finder still sucks. But it's got the all-important Unix underpinnings and it's not from Micro$oft.
  - Qwertious 11y ago
    This can often apply to Linux, too. So every major desktop OS requires replacing stuff here and there. Not sure what conclusions we can draw from that, though.
    - WorldWideWayne 11y ago
      The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the person I was replying to has no point.
    - kdevrou 11y ago
      It is true that this can apply to Linux as well. There are plenty of distros available that package as little as possible or provide choice during initial installation. That is where I know that Linux wins over everything else. A huge number of applications, where there is always at least 1 good alternative. Microsoft and Apple can't compete on choice.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]