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To be frank, the grsecurity folks and Brad in particular aren't exactly nice to others or trying the get stuff merged in the right way, so they don't get a lot

by zobzu 11y ago

To be frank, the grsecurity folks and Brad in particular aren't exactly nice to others or trying the get stuff merged in the right way, so they don't get a lot of support from the kernel folks. Most of the time Brad is shaming kernel devs and saying they're all idiots.

bigiain 11y ago
<devil's advocate> The existence of his project/business and specifically the fact that other eople not only use but rip off his wrok - seem to strongly provide evidence that supports his "they're all idiots" theory... (To be fair, "all" is clearly an exaggeration, but enough kernel devs are clearly writing security bugs into the kernel source tree to require an external "adult supervision" project to improve the security focus...)
rodgerd 11y ago
> To be frank, the grsecurity folks and Brad in particular aren't exactly nice to others or trying the get stuff merged in the right way, so they don't get a lot of support from the kernel folks. Linus "I am not a nice person, deal with it" Torvalds is upset because someone else is a ranty meany about him? Heaven forbid!
- strcat 11y ago
  Brad doesn't throw personal attacks and insults around like Linus anyway. Plain spoken criticism of actions and ideas is not a personal attack. He tends to strongly disagree with the upstream kernel developers on issues related to security and what pisses them off is that his criticism is fair and accurate. They should be embarrassed about the state of security (and stability...) in vanilla, and they get offended when it's pointed out.
  - Pyxl101 11y ago
    Do you have any examples? I'd be curious to read the discussions - in particular, legitimate criticism that was ignored.
  - forgottenpass 11y ago
    Brad doesn't throw personal attacks and insults around like Linus anyway. Plain spoken criticism of actions and ideas is not a personal attack. Quoted below: Plainly spoken criticism of action and ideas The real question the news articles should be asking is why the embedded industry as a whole is scum and why everyone has problems w/ them https://twitter.com/grsecurity/status/636873270285967361 https://twitter.com/grsecurity/status/636873270285967361
forgottenpass 11y ago
The impasse seems to be that the kernel isn't going to roll over on all their other kernel development concerns when someone waves the "security" trump card. As much as I'm into making sure people understand the importance of security and often am the guy fighting for better security in my professional capacity, I can't fault the kernel. That kind of arrogance not only doesn't work, but makes my job harder when I encounter IT and developers that have been bitten by terrible interactions with "the security community" in the past.

by zobzu 11y ago

bigiain 11y ago

<devil's advocate> The existence of his project/business and specifically the fact that other eople not only use but rip off his wrok - seem to strongly provide evidence that supports his "they're all idiots" theory... (To be fair, "all" is clearly an exaggeration, but enough kernel devs are clearly writing security bugs into the kernel source tree to require an external "adult supervision" project to improve the security focus...)

rodgerd 11y ago

> To be frank, the grsecurity folks and Brad in particular aren't exactly nice to others or trying the get stuff merged in the right way, so they don't get a lot of support from the kernel folks. Linus "I am not a nice person, deal with it" Torvalds is upset because someone else is a ranty meany about him? Heaven forbid!

strcat 11y ago
Brad doesn't throw personal attacks and insults around like Linus anyway. Plain spoken criticism of actions and ideas is not a personal attack. He tends to strongly disagree with the upstream kernel developers on issues related to security and what pisses them off is that his criticism is fair and accurate. They should be embarrassed about the state of security (and stability...) in vanilla, and they get offended when it's pointed out.
- Pyxl101 11y ago
  Do you have any examples? I'd be curious to read the discussions - in particular, legitimate criticism that was ignored.
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  Brad doesn't throw personal attacks and insults around like Linus anyway. Plain spoken criticism of actions and ideas is not a personal attack. Quoted below: Plainly spoken criticism of action and ideas The real question the news articles should be asking is why the embedded industry as a whole is scum and why everyone has problems w/ them https://twitter.com/grsecurity/status/636873270285967361 https://twitter.com/grsecurity/status/636873270285967361

forgottenpass 11y ago

The impasse seems to be that the kernel isn't going to roll over on all their other kernel development concerns when someone waves the "security" trump card. As much as I'm into making sure people understand the importance of security and often am the guy fighting for better security in my professional capacity, I can't fault the kernel. That kind of arrogance not only doesn't work, but makes my job harder when I encounter IT and developers that have been bitten by terrible interactions with "the security community" in the past.