16 ms·

Windows 10 Review

146 points by sinak 11y ago

Mithaldu 11y ago
Regarding the virtual desktops: They sadly remain useless since you can't have one program occupy multiple/all desktops. Any program can only ever be on one single virtual desktop.
- randx838 11y ago
  really? You can't open 2 browser windows and put them in different desktops?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - luisrudge 11y ago
    yes you can. Maybe he/she is talking about the same window instance?
    - Mithaldu 11y ago
      Yes. That.
      - prodmerc 11y ago
        Try Dexpot - still the best virtual desktop manager for Windows :-)
      - veidr 11y ago
        Wow, that makes it "useless"?? Sounds like a very esoteric and unusual working style to me.
        0942v8653 11y ago
        I agree. i3 does not really have that capability and lots of people (myself included) are very happy with it.
        mreiland 11y ago
        i3 is what I run in linux, and the user flow for it vs 'virtual desktops' in a more conventional desktop are too different to compare like that.
        Mithaldu 11y ago
        Some window managers on linux describe this as "sticky windows". If someone has programs open for multiple different tasks, and also runs a [ chat program/music player/calendar/email watcher/network monitor/temperature monitor/generic note-taking program/etc.etc.etc. ] on a second monitor (or if one's monitor is big enough, on some empty space there), then there is no reason whatsoever to use virtual desktops right now. This is due to the inability to keep watch on any of these "global state" programs without switching between desktops, since the user now is forced to actively switch to look at them, instead of just being able to look to the left. Is that still esoteric and unusual to you?
        randx838 11y ago
        I don't know win 10, I use xmonad. There, virtual desktops are 1 per monitor by default. It sounds like what you are saying is that windows virtual desktops span all of your monitors. Is that right? If so, I agree that is lame.
        Mithaldu 11y ago
        Thanks for asking that, the confusion people had with my complaint makes sense now. Yes, Windows 10 virtual desktops spans all screens attached. You can't just switch per-screen; and there are no sticky windows. (Although windows that do not have taskbar entries do stick around, like rainlendar, or dumeter.)
        11y ago
      - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
        I won't insult you by asking "Why would you ever want that?", because we all have our reasons. But, you have to realize, most people don't do this. So, useless to you is still pretty useful for most people.
SFjulie1 11y ago
It is as shitty as the unity interface from ubuntu. But for stupid zealotishs reasons people will develop a Stockholm syndroma and will find the new UI un/correct according to the terrorists kidnapping them.
- tracker1 11y ago
  I still think the Windows 7 UI was one of the best desktop UXs made to date... Windows 10 is less annoying with the stupid web search disabled. WTF would an application with a start menu entry not come up before a web searched term, ruins the UI... At least Unity does/did better on that. With it disabled, my workflow is mostly the same.. apps I use the most are pinned to the dock/taskbar, and anything else I hit the meta/super/win key, then type what I want and hit enter. It pretty much works everywhere (except osx).
  - ino 11y ago
    Win 7 was excellent. It was the OS with the best defaults and features out of the box (even now, but specially for the time). Very little fiddling around was needed. Win 8 made me switch to OSX. No regrets, but I miss Win 7 sometimes.
malbs 11y ago
Windows 10 pushed me to Linux. I spent the last few years slowly but surely weening myself off a dependence on Microsoft tools (at home anyway). I switched my dev environment from VS/C# to Python/Komodo. Email from Outlook to Gmail/Thunderbird. Stopped using IE a decade ago or more. The idea behind it was to make sure I wasn't really bound to a particular platform. The last few times I tried Linux, I'd either end up with Windows withdrawals, or some game/app I forgot about that I still used, or the kids would complain (or wife) and would end up back on Windows. This time, I've kept another machine running Windows on it, but my primary machine I installed Mint 17.2 on it, and no dual booting. Things I'm missing - Can't play Witcher 3 (but apparently a native version is coming soon), and I'll probably miss out on SW: Battlefront. However a bunch of other games I play have native Linux ports, in particular Kerbal Space Program. I went a little nuts and buy a brand new gtx 980ti that might not get stretched as much as it could by switching platforms. Things I'm enjoying - The font rendering seems nicer? Maybe it's imagined though. Komodo IDE runs way better under Linux than Windows, I have no idea why. I like the fact that my time investment in learning Python is paying off because a lot of the support tools/background tasks are written in Python. Especially good is now being able to see open source/dev projects that in the past I would skip over looking at because hey - no native Windows port. It's been a couple of weeks since I switched now, and no regrets yet. Thanks Windows 10.
- WalterGR 11y ago
  What didn't you like about Windows 10?
  - malbs 11y ago
    Same thing I really didn't like about Windows 8. Ads on my desktop, in an operating system I paid money for. In particular Toyota car ads in the music app. I did like the UI improvements, the notifications system etc, that switching between new/old apps didn't feel jarring anymore. I think the kicker was the github project calle dunfuck windows 10 or whatever it was, where you ran a bunch of batch scripts to remove/kill off the monitoring services, and I just didn't want to have to worry about that. Also the fact that on my other machines, the nagging to upgrade to windows 10 is constant, I had to go find/remove some random windows update patch from June/July to get rid of gwx.exe. edit: lastly, the licensing terms of the operating system itself, IANAL, and I couldn't tell what rights I had to the o/s in the future.
anon3_ 11y ago
Windows 10 impressed me, but overall, I miss those POSIX-like conventions. I miss how in OS X, I can at least open up a terminal and go to shop. cd / mkdir / tmux / vim I'm disappointed by the call homes. The lack of a package manager. Chocolate GUI is kind of a joke. Even Synaptic could queue multiple packages back in 2000. MSFT promised an SSH client. It's nowhere to be found. Overall, I'd rather fork over the cash and get a POSIX-like environment with OS X. If not, Fedora and Ubuntu are so featureful.
- plorkyeran 11y ago
  They explicitly said that the SSH stuff would not be ready in time for the Win 10 launch when it was first announced.
- AjithAntony 11y ago
  >The lack of a package manager maybe soon? http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-style-package-manager-named-oneget/ http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-...
  - kozukumi 11y ago
    The thing is OneGet isn't a package manager, it is an automated installer.
jwcooper 11y ago
For all the negativity, I really like Windows 10. I had been using Windows 8.1 and consider it to be one of the worst desktop operating systems I've used in the last 10 years. That's partially why I like Windows 10 so much. They fixed so many of the backwards ideas that came with 8.1. That being said, I mostly use it as an entertainment consumption device these days. I have a PC that I use solely to play games and watch shows. My every day computer for development is now a Macbook Pro with OS X and all the nice posix-like tools included. I think that's one of the bigger long-term issues Microsoft might be facing. It seems in the last 5 years or so there has been a fairly large exodus of developers from Windows to Linux or OS X.
- pcurve 11y ago
  Do you find it superior than Windows 7 as well? In what ways?
  - lewisl9029 11y ago
    The improved multi-monitor window management (snapping to any corner of any monitor, variable width snapping, 1-click to snap another window to the other side, etc) is the best I've seen on any OS. Powershell and cmd are so much nicer to work with now with many of the features you'd expect from a modern terminal. Still lacking compared to some competitors, but much nicer than ever before. Some of the Universal apps are actually quite pleasant to use now that they can be rearranged freely like any other window. I've been using the Mail app as my main mail client and the Office apps instead of the Office desktop suite since the tech previews and haven't really found myself missing much. There are some genuinely great improvements in Windows 10. If only it also had sensible defaults and a better privacy policy...
    - Zancarius 11y ago
      > The improved multi-monitor window management (snapping to any corner of any monitor, variable width snapping, 1-click to snap another window to the other side, etc) is the best I've seen on any OS. I'm mostly neutral on this because I don't really use window snapping, and I very rarely use Windows as it is (KDE's multi-monitor handling is OK, probably not the best, but it works well enough for me). That said, I do feel Windows 10 is a moderate improvement over 7, but I still wind up using DisplayFusion since I like its taskbar features better. The 6-pixel "snag" point between monitors (top and bottom) is infuriating to me, and I've yet to find a registry fix that actually works to get rid of that nonsense, neither can I find any obvious settings for it. Any suggestions?
makecheck 11y ago
Be sure to actually follow the links at the bottom; I found the article layout so subtle that I almost thought it was done on the first page.
garrettgrimsley 11y ago
>One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to scroll an inactive window. Prior to Windows 10, and assuming you were not running a third party utility which enabled this, in order to scroll a window you had to first select it. The author might be referring to KatMouse[0] here. It a fantastic little program, always one of my first installs when I roll out a new system. [0] http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ http://ehiti.de/katmouse/
- WalterGR 11y ago
  Another option is: Windows has had built-in support for focus-follows-mouse since at least Windows 2000. (Enabling it means that keyboard input also goes to the window under the cursor, natch. But I prefer that: I find it dramatically reduces the amount of clicking I do.) Focus-follows-mouse can be enabled by editing the registry, or using a utility such as the (small) xmouse-controls: https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-controls https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-controls.
- swozey 11y ago
  Yeah, Katmouse, after using OSX, is one of the things I MUST have. Now I need to find a Popclip (osx) for Windows.
wslh 11y ago
My two cents: - My notebook battery (X220) lasts ~60% less than before - USB 3.0 port working as a 2.0 one - The upgrade process failed with my Office 2013. It is constantly trying to install some package when I go to the Outlook search box and never finishes successfully. Microsoft Answers solutions don't work (as usual). - The metro widgets are not minimalist, they are incomplete. Now it takes three clicks to connect to my VPN instead of just one (starting from the same place) - I can't easily disconnect the Windows updates. - I was lucky not following the recommended express settings, I feel owned by Microsoft. The good things? UI responsiveness and multiple virtual desktops. I am seriously thinking about downgrading to Windows 7 or buying a Windows 10 "certified" notebook.
- VeejayRampay 11y ago
  I know this is going to sound like gratuitous snark but it's crazy that "multiple virtual desktops" are considered a plus in 2015. It's quite telling about the fact that Windows is not a developer platform anymore.
  - scholia 11y ago
    Virtual desktops have been a free download since the last century. Very few people use them, so there was never much point in shipping them with the OS. Not sure there is now.... https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-thousands-of-people-love-and-hate-windows-10/ https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-thousands-of-pe... And the idea that Windows is not a developer platform is extremely ill-informed....
    - lenkite 11y ago
      The sysinternals virtual desktops free software is highly buggy (crashes on creating new desktop many times when connected to external monitor needing a reboot), hogs memory, never worked well with the Windows 8.1 start menu, never worked well with Windows Store Apps and Alt-Tab. I am glad that virtual desktops are now natively supported.
      - 11y ago
frik 11y ago
Yes, Windows 10 does do more with your data than any previous version of Windows, but that is not always a bad thing. Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not. Such a soviet kind of operating system isn't well regarded in the land of the free(dom). And there are no reports that more than 10 recent Win7&8 updates ship with many spy&tracking features. An unheard offensive tactics that shows Microsoft evil attempt.
- WalterGR 11y ago
  Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not. Has anyone, or is this just FUD? I recently got a Mac - I'm typing this in OS X, so how does Windows 10 compare to OS X, out of curiosity? Linux certainly wins on this point, though. Unless Ubuntu has telemetry?
  - et1337 11y ago
    It does, sort of. http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-linux-integrating-amazon/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-lin...
    - Narishma 11y ago
      It did.
    - gillianseed 11y ago
      Yes that was a really stupid move, thankfully they seem to be changing this to opt-in rather than opt-out. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-product-results-opt-unity http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-produc...
  - frik 11y ago
    Use a firewall and watch the traffic. As the traffic is encrypted you cannot see the raw data but the various domains. In iOS, Android and Ubuntu Linux the phone-home feature(s) can be easily deactivated, that's the point.
rsuelzer 11y ago
I couldn't be happier with Windows 10. I actually went out and bought a windows phone and ditched my iPhone. I might be crazy, but I feel like this is the right direction of the company. They also realized that no one is going to pay for software so they need to make revenue via advertising and premium features.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  They also realized that no one is going to pay for software so they need to make revenue via advertising and premium features. The last few decades of Microsoft's trading history would seem to disagree. This is why their new strategy seems so odd to me. They seemed to have a solid business model, whose main downside was that as people bought PCs less often they wouldn't sell as many copies of Windows preinstalled on new machines. They could have compensated by moving to a subscription model for very long term support, which is something they have generally always done much better than anyone else in the field. They could have used their combined back office/front office/mobile capabilities -- a combination of strengths almost unique in the industry -- to push a more business/professional/power user friendly alternative to just shoving everything into the cloud and reducing software to lightweight apps that are a shadow of what traditional desktop applications have been. Instead, they seem to be trying to out-Google Google and out-Apple Apple. It's almost like they've given up and now they just dreaming of maybe, one day, being able to take on the awesome development capabilities of those three guys eating Ramen in a parent's basement as they crank out yet another small business app in a couple of months and charge a $19.99/mo subscription for it. I think plenty of people will pay for good software. I just don't think Microsoft thinks those people are its market any more, and that's sad.
  - scholia 11y ago
    Windows 10 doesn't introduce a new strategy and doesn't involve a new business model. Microsoft is simply offering a free upgrade to earlier paid-for versions, partly to reduce market fragmentation and partly to try to create a market for new Windows Runtime apps distributed from the Windows Store. Windows Runtime apps and the Windows Store were introduced with Windows 8. However, we now have "Universal" apps that are meant to run on smartphones, tablets, 2-in-1s, laptops, desktops etc, and the Xbox One games console.
x0054 11y ago
> Speaking of updates, Windows 10 no longer offers a way to disable Windows Updates in the settings page. Pro will let you defer feature updates, but not security updates, and Enterprise versions will offer a long term servicing branch option, but the goal here is to keep Windows up to date going forward. This is kind of a big deal. I have had Windows Update brake things in the past, and I also have a limited internet connection during the day time. It's disappointing that this can not be disabled, and ran at will, when I am good and ready to deal with the potential screwups.
- babby 11y ago
  While I recommend a switch to Linux/Mac, you can make updates behave like Win7 by opening "Edit Group Policies" in the start search. Then look for Windows Updates for the option. Without this done windows will actually download updates automatically while you are ingame or something else network sensitive, it's so fucking stupid.
  - x0054 11y ago
    Is that setting available in Win10 Pro, or just enterprise?
    - otis_inf 11y ago
      Enterprise. Pro has the 'delay till we say it's time' option.
      - babby 11y ago
        Thats wrong. Pro lets you choose not to download it indefinitely with the option I described. Unless you're implying it auto-downloads after a few weeks, I wouldn't know.
        otis_inf 11y ago
        AFAIK you can disable it but it will enable it automatically after a while again, so it's not indefinitely disabled.
sandworm101 11y ago
A review? Umpteen billion lines of code, vast new features, privacy issues, tens of thousands of man hours ... and this "reviewer" cannot get past the GUI.
- tempestn 11y ago
  I thought the review was extremely detailed and got into many aspects of the OS outside of the GUI. Details of DirectX12 and graphics performance in general, comparisons across a number of performance metrics with Windows 8, details on all the major built-in applications, info on new wifi features, data syncing, new login options... and those are only the ones that immediately come to mind.
rebootthesystem 11y ago
We have to use Windows because tools such as Solidworks, Altium Designer and a gaggle of other FEA, CAM and engineering tools pretty much leave us no options. For everything else it's a VM running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. The combination works really well on beefy development machines with three large monitors, tons of memory and multiple (4 to 5) hard drives. This actually is a really nice environment to work on because you can seamlessly choose which tools work best on which platform and optimize your process accordingly. For example, I can use Excel under Windows to prepare data to then export into a PostgreSQL database using Python on the Ubuntu virtual machine. Really slick.
- tempestn 11y ago
  I also use a Windows 7 machine with multiple monitors and Linux VMs for development. I also mount a number of Samba folders from a separate Linux server and generally have an ssh terminal open to it as well. Agreed that it's a nice environment. Basically the polish of Windows without sacrificing the power^ of Linux. ^I'm sure most or all of what I do in Linux could be done in Windows, but like most developers I'm far more familiar with *nix tooling than Windows equivalents.
  - rebootthesystem 11y ago
    For web development being on linux is just natural. I feel it is the right choice. On HN when someone says "development" it is usually taken to mean "web development". Let's not forget there are worlds outside that domain, like embedded software and hardware where being on Windows makes a lot of sense due to the tools.
    - tempestn 11y ago
      Totally. I did mean web development now, but previously I was an electrical engineer, so I've definitely spent some time with Altium. :)
MarkMc 11y ago
I know this may seem petty, but my biggest problem with Windows 10 is that it is ugly. Microsoft: Please bring back window title bar and borders with that lovely flat translucent style.
- prodmerc 11y ago
  it's not that petty - having multiple windows open in Windows 8 literally hurt my eyes. It's hard to switch between them and find what you need when everything looks the same at a quick glance. Goddamn flat design, it's stupid and I can't wait until everyone does another 180 and goes back to a more sane UI. Now, Windows 10 is supposed to be a bit improved, but it still looks more or less the same as 8...
- VeejayRampay 11y ago
  I agree. It's mixing different styles from different eras (some icons, especially in the device manager thingy feel awfully XP-ish or even earlier period), making the whole thing non visually consistent and quite ugly.
doczoidberg 11y ago
why I use Windows 10 on my desktop for daily work: - best hardware support, no driver problems for example with my graphics card or thinkpad dock - updates etc. just work without any configurations or reading manuals - Visual Studio is yet only available to Windows, whereas it evolves to the most compelling cross platform development tool (xamarin, universal apps, android and ios support) - productive cortana search - fast, even on old hardware - the desktop is much more faster and fluent than e.g. gnome - I don't care sending over metrics to Microsoft, this is needed to make software better - I can see edge evolve I use linux vms on some severs where I need to scale things. But it has only one reason: fast deployment times because of smaller os images.
skc 11y ago
Been a very solid upgrade for me. I never minded Windows 8.1 as much as most people did. Windows 10 is actually a great improvement over Windows 7 which is something I never thought would happen given the realities of the PC market today. But somehow they managed it. Kudos.
kozukumi 11y ago
I am still undecided about Windows 10. I have been running it as my primary OS since release day and while it isn't bad I don't really see any benefit to it either. Cortana isn't as helpful on my computer as it is on my phone but even then I don't really care about talking to my devices. The most helpful it has been is reminders, being able to say "remind me to call John at 5pm" is kinda nice. Multiple desktops are very goofy on Windows 10. Not as good as on Linux or even OS X. Microsoft's built in apps for media are pathetic still. There are many annoying things also such as uninstall store apps constantly reinstall such as 3D Builder, Get Skype and Get Office. Even after I have Office installed!! Selecting a new Note from the Action Centre can only load the gimped built in OneNote not the full OneNote that is part of Office. Same with clicking the Surface Pen. The start menu is seriously limited in where I can put things. I can't really personalise it much beyond putting tiles in the designated areas. Edge is pretty awful with its current feature set. Basically Windows 10 was released 6 months too early. I don't really understand why they were so desperate to release in July? Surely it would have made more sense to push back to October (Threshold 2 release window) or maybe even into 2016 when they can have a proper v1 version of Edge and more features in things like Groove Music which lacks even basic library management features like editing a songs tags. Then we have the UI which is an inconsistent mess. Different styles all over the place. So reading all this you would think I hate Windows 10 but I don't. I am disappointed with it as is but I am still using it over Windows 8.1 although it is more because it isn't worse than 8.1. At least not enough so to fall back to it anyway. It doesn't really give me anything amazing over 8.1 though. I should add that I am not a Windows Store app user. I fucking hate how bland and limited most store apps are. There is no simple way to store app settings in a transportable way such as an ini file on a pen drive, for that you need to stick with old Win32 portable apps. For a tech professional/power user store apps are horrible.
- zapu 11y ago
  Can you elaborate on multiple desktops? That was the one feature for which I was going to do the upgrade.
  - kozukumi 11y ago
    My biggest issue is I can't right click on the title bar of an app and send it to another desktop. I have to open the Task View and move it that way. Not very user friendly.
kderbe 11y ago
The Microsoft Jackpot game discussed on page 6 is sickening. Why is Microsoft publishing a shoddy free-to-play slot machine game that offers in-app purchases in $200 increments? It casts a bad light on both their store and their new OS.
- joshstrange 11y ago
  Almost as bad as making solitare a subscription game....
  - scholia 11y ago
    Which it isn't. It's free to play but ad-supported, just like most other free apps downloaded from online stores. Nothing stops you from getting a desktop version, or even retrieving the code from an earlier version of Windows.
  - MLR 11y ago
    It has an IAP option to remove ads that you don't see unless you're using features which are new to this version of Solitaire. I'd prefer it not to have game play interrupting ads obviously (though frankly I've only used it to play Freecell so I haven't seen them anyway), but trying to paint it as a subscription game is ludicrous.
thenomad 11y ago
OK, since everyone's saying "now's the time to switch to Linux" - would I be able to switch yet? Requisites: 1) Adobe Creative Cloud working with no performance loss. Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere are probably the most key elements. 2) 3DSMax and Motionbuilder usable under Linux. I could switch to Maya from Max if absolutely necessary. 3) 99.5% of games playable on Linux, including Blizzard stuff, FFXIV. 4) Unreal Engine 4 and Unity development possible without productivity loss compared to Windows. 5) Evernote and Skype working. Thinking about it, that's pretty much it. Would that be doable?
- izacus 11y ago
  No.
  - thenomad 11y ago
    Thanks!
- zephyrthenoble 11y ago
  You have named a lot of applications that are native to Windows only. You might be able to get them working on Linux using WINE, but I can tell you from my experience that on Fedora 21 Blizzard games are difficult if not impossible to get working. I don't have experience wit the other applications you mentioned.
  - thenomad 11y ago
    Thanks - worth knowing.
  - TheGrimDerp1 11y ago
    I've never had problems running blizz games in wine
- joeyspn 11y ago
  A more appropriate answer is "switch to *nix". I'm in the same case as you, I do engineering and design equally and I also need CC and 3D soft (I switched 3DS for Cinema4D), etc. I use OSX for the design stuff and I have an ubuntu partition via bootcamp. I also have many others Linux and Android machines via virtualbox/vagrant (but those are mainly for dev + UI design). So, if you're on win, sincerely I'd buy a mac, but I'd also start playing with Linux in another partition. It's been 10+ years since I completely abandoned win. Never looked back.
lottin 11y ago
Why do GUI designers hate sub-menus? Note that the new Start menu doesn't really have sub-menus, it's just one big expandable menu. It falls in this general trend of getting rid of sub-menus and replacing them with less efficient alternatives. It annoys me greatly.
- hodwik 11y ago
  Most users won't use tree strcutures. If you don't give them a flat structure, they won't use it. Look at how many people keep all of their files directly on their Desktop.
xnzakg 11y ago
> One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to scroll an inactive window. That's one of the things that annoy me when using Windows (on someone else's computer). That was fast, Microsoft. Linux had it for a long while already.
- joshstrange 11y ago
  Yeah OS X has this for a while as well and you don't realize how awesome it is until you've had it for a while and then gone back to Windows for something.
pjspycha 11y ago
Windows 10 is just another example of the trend in all operating systems. It came out a little more buggy than what used to be considered acceptable. New features are added that are unpolished and made at the expense of privacy or usability. Even thou people hated Vista, under the hood there was a lot of technical improvements to be happy about. Windows 10 really is just hinging on directx 10. Sadly this trend is there with Apple as well. No one really uses the family ipad2 anymore since we upgraded to ios8.
rjempson 11y ago
I think I just witnessed the day Hacker News died. This thread is appalling, much like the article. I'm no Windows apologist, but the article was a ramble about windows 8 with a paragraph tacked on the end, and the comments here are even less relevant.

146 points by sinak 11y ago

Regarding the virtual desktops: They sadly remain useless since you can't have one program occupy multiple/all desktops. Any program can only ever be on one single virtual desktop.

randx838 11y ago
really? You can't open 2 browser windows and put them in different desktops?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- luisrudge 11y ago
  yes you can. Maybe he/she is talking about the same window instance?
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    Yes. That.
    - prodmerc 11y ago
      Try Dexpot - still the best virtual desktop manager for Windows :-)
    - veidr 11y ago
      Wow, that makes it "useless"?? Sounds like a very esoteric and unusual working style to me.
      - 0942v8653 11y ago
        I agree. i3 does not really have that capability and lots of people (myself included) are very happy with it.
        mreiland 11y ago
        i3 is what I run in linux, and the user flow for it vs 'virtual desktops' in a more conventional desktop are too different to compare like that.
      - Mithaldu 11y ago
        Some window managers on linux describe this as "sticky windows". If someone has programs open for multiple different tasks, and also runs a [ chat program/music player/calendar/email watcher/network monitor/temperature monitor/generic note-taking program/etc.etc.etc. ] on a second monitor (or if one's monitor is big enough, on some empty space there), then there is no reason whatsoever to use virtual desktops right now. This is due to the inability to keep watch on any of these "global state" programs without switching between desktops, since the user now is forced to actively switch to look at them, instead of just being able to look to the left. Is that still esoteric and unusual to you?
        randx838 11y ago
        I don't know win 10, I use xmonad. There, virtual desktops are 1 per monitor by default. It sounds like what you are saying is that windows virtual desktops span all of your monitors. Is that right? If so, I agree that is lame.
        Mithaldu 11y ago
        Thanks for asking that, the confusion people had with my complaint makes sense now. Yes, Windows 10 virtual desktops spans all screens attached. You can't just switch per-screen; and there are no sticky windows. (Although windows that do not have taskbar entries do stick around, like rainlendar, or dumeter.)
        11y ago
    - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
      I won't insult you by asking "Why would you ever want that?", because we all have our reasons. But, you have to realize, most people don't do this. So, useless to you is still pretty useful for most people.

SFjulie1 11y ago

It is as shitty as the unity interface from ubuntu. But for stupid zealotishs reasons people will develop a Stockholm syndroma and will find the new UI un/correct according to the terrorists kidnapping them.

tracker1 11y ago
I still think the Windows 7 UI was one of the best desktop UXs made to date... Windows 10 is less annoying with the stupid web search disabled. WTF would an application with a start menu entry not come up before a web searched term, ruins the UI... At least Unity does/did better on that. With it disabled, my workflow is mostly the same.. apps I use the most are pinned to the dock/taskbar, and anything else I hit the meta/super/win key, then type what I want and hit enter. It pretty much works everywhere (except osx).
- ino 11y ago
  Win 7 was excellent. It was the OS with the best defaults and features out of the box (even now, but specially for the time). Very little fiddling around was needed. Win 8 made me switch to OSX. No regrets, but I miss Win 7 sometimes.

malbs 11y ago

Windows 10 pushed me to Linux. I spent the last few years slowly but surely weening myself off a dependence on Microsoft tools (at home anyway). I switched my dev environment from VS/C# to Python/Komodo. Email from Outlook to Gmail/Thunderbird. Stopped using IE a decade ago or more. The idea behind it was to make sure I wasn't really bound to a particular platform. The last few times I tried Linux, I'd either end up with Windows withdrawals, or some game/app I forgot about that I still used, or the kids would complain (or wife) and would end up back on Windows. This time, I've kept another machine running Windows on it, but my primary machine I installed Mint 17.2 on it, and no dual booting. Things I'm missing - Can't play Witcher 3 (but apparently a native version is coming soon), and I'll probably miss out on SW: Battlefront. However a bunch of other games I play have native Linux ports, in particular Kerbal Space Program. I went a little nuts and buy a brand new gtx 980ti that might not get stretched as much as it could by switching platforms. Things I'm enjoying - The font rendering seems nicer? Maybe it's imagined though. Komodo IDE runs way better under Linux than Windows, I have no idea why. I like the fact that my time investment in learning Python is paying off because a lot of the support tools/background tasks are written in Python. Especially good is now being able to see open source/dev projects that in the past I would skip over looking at because hey - no native Windows port. It's been a couple of weeks since I switched now, and no regrets yet. Thanks Windows 10.

WalterGR 11y ago
What didn't you like about Windows 10?
- malbs 11y ago
  Same thing I really didn't like about Windows 8. Ads on my desktop, in an operating system I paid money for. In particular Toyota car ads in the music app. I did like the UI improvements, the notifications system etc, that switching between new/old apps didn't feel jarring anymore. I think the kicker was the github project calle dunfuck windows 10 or whatever it was, where you ran a bunch of batch scripts to remove/kill off the monitoring services, and I just didn't want to have to worry about that. Also the fact that on my other machines, the nagging to upgrade to windows 10 is constant, I had to go find/remove some random windows update patch from June/July to get rid of gwx.exe. edit: lastly, the licensing terms of the operating system itself, IANAL, and I couldn't tell what rights I had to the o/s in the future.

anon3_ 11y ago

Windows 10 impressed me, but overall, I miss those POSIX-like conventions. I miss how in OS X, I can at least open up a terminal and go to shop. cd / mkdir / tmux / vim I'm disappointed by the call homes. The lack of a package manager. Chocolate GUI is kind of a joke. Even Synaptic could queue multiple packages back in 2000. MSFT promised an SSH client. It's nowhere to be found. Overall, I'd rather fork over the cash and get a POSIX-like environment with OS X. If not, Fedora and Ubuntu are so featureful.

plorkyeran 11y ago
They explicitly said that the SSH stuff would not be ready in time for the Win 10 launch when it was first announced.
AjithAntony 11y ago
>The lack of a package manager maybe soon? http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-style-package-manager-named-oneget/ http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-...
- kozukumi 11y ago
  The thing is OneGet isn't a package manager, it is an automated installer.

jwcooper 11y ago

For all the negativity, I really like Windows 10. I had been using Windows 8.1 and consider it to be one of the worst desktop operating systems I've used in the last 10 years. That's partially why I like Windows 10 so much. They fixed so many of the backwards ideas that came with 8.1. That being said, I mostly use it as an entertainment consumption device these days. I have a PC that I use solely to play games and watch shows. My every day computer for development is now a Macbook Pro with OS X and all the nice posix-like tools included. I think that's one of the bigger long-term issues Microsoft might be facing. It seems in the last 5 years or so there has been a fairly large exodus of developers from Windows to Linux or OS X.

pcurve 11y ago
Do you find it superior than Windows 7 as well? In what ways?
- lewisl9029 11y ago
  The improved multi-monitor window management (snapping to any corner of any monitor, variable width snapping, 1-click to snap another window to the other side, etc) is the best I've seen on any OS. Powershell and cmd are so much nicer to work with now with many of the features you'd expect from a modern terminal. Still lacking compared to some competitors, but much nicer than ever before. Some of the Universal apps are actually quite pleasant to use now that they can be rearranged freely like any other window. I've been using the Mail app as my main mail client and the Office apps instead of the Office desktop suite since the tech previews and haven't really found myself missing much. There are some genuinely great improvements in Windows 10. If only it also had sensible defaults and a better privacy policy...
  - Zancarius 11y ago
    > The improved multi-monitor window management (snapping to any corner of any monitor, variable width snapping, 1-click to snap another window to the other side, etc) is the best I've seen on any OS. I'm mostly neutral on this because I don't really use window snapping, and I very rarely use Windows as it is (KDE's multi-monitor handling is OK, probably not the best, but it works well enough for me). That said, I do feel Windows 10 is a moderate improvement over 7, but I still wind up using DisplayFusion since I like its taskbar features better. The 6-pixel "snag" point between monitors (top and bottom) is infuriating to me, and I've yet to find a registry fix that actually works to get rid of that nonsense, neither can I find any obvious settings for it. Any suggestions?

makecheck 11y ago

Be sure to actually follow the links at the bottom; I found the article layout so subtle that I almost thought it was done on the first page.

garrettgrimsley 11y ago

>One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to scroll an inactive window. Prior to Windows 10, and assuming you were not running a third party utility which enabled this, in order to scroll a window you had to first select it. The author might be referring to KatMouse[0] here. It a fantastic little program, always one of my first installs when I roll out a new system. [0] http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ http://ehiti.de/katmouse/

WalterGR 11y ago
Another option is: Windows has had built-in support for focus-follows-mouse since at least Windows 2000. (Enabling it means that keyboard input also goes to the window under the cursor, natch. But I prefer that: I find it dramatically reduces the amount of clicking I do.) Focus-follows-mouse can be enabled by editing the registry, or using a utility such as the (small) xmouse-controls: https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-controls https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-controls.
swozey 11y ago
Yeah, Katmouse, after using OSX, is one of the things I MUST have. Now I need to find a Popclip (osx) for Windows.

wslh 11y ago

My two cents: - My notebook battery (X220) lasts ~60% less than before - USB 3.0 port working as a 2.0 one - The upgrade process failed with my Office 2013. It is constantly trying to install some package when I go to the Outlook search box and never finishes successfully. Microsoft Answers solutions don't work (as usual). - The metro widgets are not minimalist, they are incomplete. Now it takes three clicks to connect to my VPN instead of just one (starting from the same place) - I can't easily disconnect the Windows updates. - I was lucky not following the recommended express settings, I feel owned by Microsoft. The good things? UI responsiveness and multiple virtual desktops. I am seriously thinking about downgrading to Windows 7 or buying a Windows 10 "certified" notebook.

VeejayRampay 11y ago
I know this is going to sound like gratuitous snark but it's crazy that "multiple virtual desktops" are considered a plus in 2015. It's quite telling about the fact that Windows is not a developer platform anymore.
- scholia 11y ago
  Virtual desktops have been a free download since the last century. Very few people use them, so there was never much point in shipping them with the OS. Not sure there is now.... https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-thousands-of-people-love-and-hate-windows-10/ https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-thousands-of-pe... And the idea that Windows is not a developer platform is extremely ill-informed....
  - lenkite 11y ago
    The sysinternals virtual desktops free software is highly buggy (crashes on creating new desktop many times when connected to external monitor needing a reboot), hogs memory, never worked well with the Windows 8.1 start menu, never worked well with Windows Store Apps and Alt-Tab. I am glad that virtual desktops are now natively supported.
    - 11y ago

frik 11y ago

Yes, Windows 10 does do more with your data than any previous version of Windows, but that is not always a bad thing. Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not. Such a soviet kind of operating system isn't well regarded in the land of the free(dom). And there are no reports that more than 10 recent Win7&8 updates ship with many spy&tracking features. An unheard offensive tactics that shows Microsoft evil attempt.

WalterGR 11y ago
Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not. Has anyone, or is this just FUD? I recently got a Mac - I'm typing this in OS X, so how does Windows 10 compare to OS X, out of curiosity? Linux certainly wins on this point, though. Unless Ubuntu has telemetry?
- et1337 11y ago
  It does, sort of. http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-linux-integrating-amazon/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-lin...
  - Narishma 11y ago
    It did.
  - gillianseed 11y ago
    Yes that was a really stupid move, thankfully they seem to be changing this to opt-in rather than opt-out. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-product-results-opt-unity http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-produc...
- frik 11y ago
  Use a firewall and watch the traffic. As the traffic is encrypted you cannot see the raw data but the various domains. In iOS, Android and Ubuntu Linux the phone-home feature(s) can be easily deactivated, that's the point.

rsuelzer 11y ago

I couldn't be happier with Windows 10. I actually went out and bought a windows phone and ditched my iPhone. I might be crazy, but I feel like this is the right direction of the company. They also realized that no one is going to pay for software so they need to make revenue via advertising and premium features.

Silhouette 11y ago
They also realized that no one is going to pay for software so they need to make revenue via advertising and premium features. The last few decades of Microsoft's trading history would seem to disagree. This is why their new strategy seems so odd to me. They seemed to have a solid business model, whose main downside was that as people bought PCs less often they wouldn't sell as many copies of Windows preinstalled on new machines. They could have compensated by moving to a subscription model for very long term support, which is something they have generally always done much better than anyone else in the field. They could have used their combined back office/front office/mobile capabilities -- a combination of strengths almost unique in the industry -- to push a more business/professional/power user friendly alternative to just shoving everything into the cloud and reducing software to lightweight apps that are a shadow of what traditional desktop applications have been. Instead, they seem to be trying to out-Google Google and out-Apple Apple. It's almost like they've given up and now they just dreaming of maybe, one day, being able to take on the awesome development capabilities of those three guys eating Ramen in a parent's basement as they crank out yet another small business app in a couple of months and charge a $19.99/mo subscription for it. I think plenty of people will pay for good software. I just don't think Microsoft thinks those people are its market any more, and that's sad.
- scholia 11y ago
  Windows 10 doesn't introduce a new strategy and doesn't involve a new business model. Microsoft is simply offering a free upgrade to earlier paid-for versions, partly to reduce market fragmentation and partly to try to create a market for new Windows Runtime apps distributed from the Windows Store. Windows Runtime apps and the Windows Store were introduced with Windows 8. However, we now have "Universal" apps that are meant to run on smartphones, tablets, 2-in-1s, laptops, desktops etc, and the Xbox One games console.

x0054 11y ago

> Speaking of updates, Windows 10 no longer offers a way to disable Windows Updates in the settings page. Pro will let you defer feature updates, but not security updates, and Enterprise versions will offer a long term servicing branch option, but the goal here is to keep Windows up to date going forward. This is kind of a big deal. I have had Windows Update brake things in the past, and I also have a limited internet connection during the day time. It's disappointing that this can not be disabled, and ran at will, when I am good and ready to deal with the potential screwups.

babby 11y ago
While I recommend a switch to Linux/Mac, you can make updates behave like Win7 by opening "Edit Group Policies" in the start search. Then look for Windows Updates for the option. Without this done windows will actually download updates automatically while you are ingame or something else network sensitive, it's so fucking stupid.
- x0054 11y ago
  Is that setting available in Win10 Pro, or just enterprise?
  - otis_inf 11y ago
    Enterprise. Pro has the 'delay till we say it's time' option.
    - babby 11y ago
      Thats wrong. Pro lets you choose not to download it indefinitely with the option I described. Unless you're implying it auto-downloads after a few weeks, I wouldn't know.
      - otis_inf 11y ago
        AFAIK you can disable it but it will enable it automatically after a while again, so it's not indefinitely disabled.

sandworm101 11y ago

A review? Umpteen billion lines of code, vast new features, privacy issues, tens of thousands of man hours ... and this "reviewer" cannot get past the GUI.

tempestn 11y ago
I thought the review was extremely detailed and got into many aspects of the OS outside of the GUI. Details of DirectX12 and graphics performance in general, comparisons across a number of performance metrics with Windows 8, details on all the major built-in applications, info on new wifi features, data syncing, new login options... and those are only the ones that immediately come to mind.

rebootthesystem 11y ago

We have to use Windows because tools such as Solidworks, Altium Designer and a gaggle of other FEA, CAM and engineering tools pretty much leave us no options. For everything else it's a VM running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. The combination works really well on beefy development machines with three large monitors, tons of memory and multiple (4 to 5) hard drives. This actually is a really nice environment to work on because you can seamlessly choose which tools work best on which platform and optimize your process accordingly. For example, I can use Excel under Windows to prepare data to then export into a PostgreSQL database using Python on the Ubuntu virtual machine. Really slick.

tempestn 11y ago
I also use a Windows 7 machine with multiple monitors and Linux VMs for development. I also mount a number of Samba folders from a separate Linux server and generally have an ssh terminal open to it as well. Agreed that it's a nice environment. Basically the polish of Windows without sacrificing the power^ of Linux. ^I'm sure most or all of what I do in Linux could be done in Windows, but like most developers I'm far more familiar with *nix tooling than Windows equivalents.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  For web development being on linux is just natural. I feel it is the right choice. On HN when someone says "development" it is usually taken to mean "web development". Let's not forget there are worlds outside that domain, like embedded software and hardware where being on Windows makes a lot of sense due to the tools.
  - tempestn 11y ago
    Totally. I did mean web development now, but previously I was an electrical engineer, so I've definitely spent some time with Altium. :)

MarkMc 11y ago

I know this may seem petty, but my biggest problem with Windows 10 is that it is ugly. Microsoft: Please bring back window title bar and borders with that lovely flat translucent style.

prodmerc 11y ago
it's not that petty - having multiple windows open in Windows 8 literally hurt my eyes. It's hard to switch between them and find what you need when everything looks the same at a quick glance. Goddamn flat design, it's stupid and I can't wait until everyone does another 180 and goes back to a more sane UI. Now, Windows 10 is supposed to be a bit improved, but it still looks more or less the same as 8...
VeejayRampay 11y ago
I agree. It's mixing different styles from different eras (some icons, especially in the device manager thingy feel awfully XP-ish or even earlier period), making the whole thing non visually consistent and quite ugly.

doczoidberg 11y ago

why I use Windows 10 on my desktop for daily work: - best hardware support, no driver problems for example with my graphics card or thinkpad dock - updates etc. just work without any configurations or reading manuals - Visual Studio is yet only available to Windows, whereas it evolves to the most compelling cross platform development tool (xamarin, universal apps, android and ios support) - productive cortana search - fast, even on old hardware - the desktop is much more faster and fluent than e.g. gnome - I don't care sending over metrics to Microsoft, this is needed to make software better - I can see edge evolve I use linux vms on some severs where I need to scale things. But it has only one reason: fast deployment times because of smaller os images.

skc 11y ago

Been a very solid upgrade for me. I never minded Windows 8.1 as much as most people did. Windows 10 is actually a great improvement over Windows 7 which is something I never thought would happen given the realities of the PC market today. But somehow they managed it. Kudos.

kozukumi 11y ago

I am still undecided about Windows 10. I have been running it as my primary OS since release day and while it isn't bad I don't really see any benefit to it either. Cortana isn't as helpful on my computer as it is on my phone but even then I don't really care about talking to my devices. The most helpful it has been is reminders, being able to say "remind me to call John at 5pm" is kinda nice. Multiple desktops are very goofy on Windows 10. Not as good as on Linux or even OS X. Microsoft's built in apps for media are pathetic still. There are many annoying things also such as uninstall store apps constantly reinstall such as 3D Builder, Get Skype and Get Office. Even after I have Office installed!! Selecting a new Note from the Action Centre can only load the gimped built in OneNote not the full OneNote that is part of Office. Same with clicking the Surface Pen. The start menu is seriously limited in where I can put things. I can't really personalise it much beyond putting tiles in the designated areas. Edge is pretty awful with its current feature set. Basically Windows 10 was released 6 months too early. I don't really understand why they were so desperate to release in July? Surely it would have made more sense to push back to October (Threshold 2 release window) or maybe even into 2016 when they can have a proper v1 version of Edge and more features in things like Groove Music which lacks even basic library management features like editing a songs tags. Then we have the UI which is an inconsistent mess. Different styles all over the place. So reading all this you would think I hate Windows 10 but I don't. I am disappointed with it as is but I am still using it over Windows 8.1 although it is more because it isn't worse than 8.1. At least not enough so to fall back to it anyway. It doesn't really give me anything amazing over 8.1 though. I should add that I am not a Windows Store app user. I fucking hate how bland and limited most store apps are. There is no simple way to store app settings in a transportable way such as an ini file on a pen drive, for that you need to stick with old Win32 portable apps. For a tech professional/power user store apps are horrible.

zapu 11y ago
Can you elaborate on multiple desktops? That was the one feature for which I was going to do the upgrade.
- kozukumi 11y ago
  My biggest issue is I can't right click on the title bar of an app and send it to another desktop. I have to open the Task View and move it that way. Not very user friendly.

kderbe 11y ago

The Microsoft Jackpot game discussed on page 6 is sickening. Why is Microsoft publishing a shoddy free-to-play slot machine game that offers in-app purchases in $200 increments? It casts a bad light on both their store and their new OS.

joshstrange 11y ago
Almost as bad as making solitare a subscription game....
- scholia 11y ago
  Which it isn't. It's free to play but ad-supported, just like most other free apps downloaded from online stores. Nothing stops you from getting a desktop version, or even retrieving the code from an earlier version of Windows.
- MLR 11y ago
  It has an IAP option to remove ads that you don't see unless you're using features which are new to this version of Solitaire. I'd prefer it not to have game play interrupting ads obviously (though frankly I've only used it to play Freecell so I haven't seen them anyway), but trying to paint it as a subscription game is ludicrous.

thenomad 11y ago

OK, since everyone's saying "now's the time to switch to Linux" - would I be able to switch yet? Requisites: 1) Adobe Creative Cloud working with no performance loss. Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere are probably the most key elements. 2) 3DSMax and Motionbuilder usable under Linux. I could switch to Maya from Max if absolutely necessary. 3) 99.5% of games playable on Linux, including Blizzard stuff, FFXIV. 4) Unreal Engine 4 and Unity development possible without productivity loss compared to Windows. 5) Evernote and Skype working. Thinking about it, that's pretty much it. Would that be doable?

izacus 11y ago
No.
- thenomad 11y ago
  Thanks!
zephyrthenoble 11y ago
You have named a lot of applications that are native to Windows only. You might be able to get them working on Linux using WINE, but I can tell you from my experience that on Fedora 21 Blizzard games are difficult if not impossible to get working. I don't have experience wit the other applications you mentioned.
- thenomad 11y ago
  Thanks - worth knowing.
- TheGrimDerp1 11y ago
  I've never had problems running blizz games in wine
joeyspn 11y ago
A more appropriate answer is "switch to *nix". I'm in the same case as you, I do engineering and design equally and I also need CC and 3D soft (I switched 3DS for Cinema4D), etc. I use OSX for the design stuff and I have an ubuntu partition via bootcamp. I also have many others Linux and Android machines via virtualbox/vagrant (but those are mainly for dev + UI design). So, if you're on win, sincerely I'd buy a mac, but I'd also start playing with Linux in another partition. It's been 10+ years since I completely abandoned win. Never looked back.

lottin 11y ago

Why do GUI designers hate sub-menus? Note that the new Start menu doesn't really have sub-menus, it's just one big expandable menu. It falls in this general trend of getting rid of sub-menus and replacing them with less efficient alternatives. It annoys me greatly.

hodwik 11y ago
Most users won't use tree strcutures. If you don't give them a flat structure, they won't use it. Look at how many people keep all of their files directly on their Desktop.

xnzakg 11y ago

> One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to scroll an inactive window. That's one of the things that annoy me when using Windows (on someone else's computer). That was fast, Microsoft. Linux had it for a long while already.

joshstrange 11y ago
Yeah OS X has this for a while as well and you don't realize how awesome it is until you've had it for a while and then gone back to Windows for something.

pjspycha 11y ago

Windows 10 is just another example of the trend in all operating systems. It came out a little more buggy than what used to be considered acceptable. New features are added that are unpolished and made at the expense of privacy or usability. Even thou people hated Vista, under the hood there was a lot of technical improvements to be happy about. Windows 10 really is just hinging on directx 10. Sadly this trend is there with Apple as well. No one really uses the family ipad2 anymore since we upgraded to ios8.

rjempson 11y ago

I think I just witnessed the day Hacker News died. This thread is appalling, much like the article. I'm no Windows apologist, but the article was a ramble about windows 8 with a paragraph tacked on the end, and the comments here are even less relevant.