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In those countries where such luxuries are provided, the option of working for a (homegrown) tech giant isn't even available: http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/08/

In those countries where such luxuries are provided, the option of working for a (homegrown) tech giant isn't even available: http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/08/24/why-europe-hates-us-internet-giants-in-six-charts/ http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/08/24/why-europe-hates-us-int...

toomuchtodo 11y ago
How terrible. Perhaps healthcare for all is tradeoff worth making. Or we can continue on as savages in the US. EDIT: I can see my karma for this comment is swinging around wildly. Consider the following: * You are (based on the typical HN audience) probably young now, most likely healthy. You will eventually get older, and will likely have medical issues eventually. * I argue that healthcare is not something to be earned, but something you are entitled to as a human being. No one should ever die from health reasons due to not having enough money. If its too expensive to do this (which is clearly false, as other countries are able to do so with less money than we spend in the US), we use R&D spending to ruthlessly drive down the cost. * I came to this point of view over time. I am a healthy young male. I've known people who have died because they couldn't afford healthcare. I've known someone who worked as a prostitute to pay for her SOs cancer treatment. My mother would not have been able to afford a surgery to mediate her degenerative disc disease in her spine without the affordable care act. I am not arguing for the elimination of the tech startup scene in order to have universal healthcare. I'm arguing for the transition to single payer and the streamlining of healthcare deliver in the US to lower costs AND ensure coverage for everyone. We're a first world developed country, and its about time like we acted like one.
- davidw 11y ago
  I don't think it's even a tradeoff: in countries like Italy, health care costs less, as a percentage of GDP, than in the US. In a startup like the one I worked at there, with about 30 people, there were 0 people in the company who had anything to do with health care stuff, because it's not the company that deals with it. That's a net win. Of course, there are other things that are not so good for businesses in various European countries, but I'd chalk up the health care system as a win for small companies and entrepreneurs.
- werber 11y ago
  I think lobbying to make profit based on suffering, ie. inflating the price of medicine, denying coverage, etc needs to be illegal. People literally die because of the profit incentive for the insurance industry.
jordan0day 11y ago
Is there supposed to be a cause-and-effect here? Because I'm not seeing how that's related?
s73v3r 11y ago
So the choices are to receive healthcare for all, or for a tiny fraction of the population to have the chance to maybe work for a shitty company that clearly hates their employees?
elektromekatron 11y ago
If you look at the list of the top ten wealthiest IT companies, other than the US you are talking about Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, all of which manage to have social provision for such luxuries, as you put it.
redthrowaway 11y ago
What the hell is it with Americans taking their broken healthcare system as a source of pride? You spend more public money on your healthcare system per capita than any country save Norway and Switzerland[1]. You would save money and be able to lower taxes if you adopted universal healthcare, yet you persist in your delusion that your shitty healthcare is what allows you to be an economic powerhouse. Insanity. [1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?order=wbapi_data_value_2013+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?order=wbapi_...
- mmagin 11y ago
  All I can conclude is that in US politics, it's far more politically suicidal to give things away to individuals for free than to waste government money.
- Florin_Andrei 11y ago
  America is not a forward-thinking country anymore. This is not yet apparent for everyone, simply because very large amounts of financial and military power are still amassed here, which allow the country to dominate the world. But its ethos is falling far behind the times. That will take a while to unravel.
- monocasa 11y ago
  It's because since your healthcare is intrinsically linked to your employment, it gives management a leg up on labor.
mgkimsal 11y ago
"the option of working for a (homegrown) tech giant isn't even available" umm.... so what? we should sacrifice the health of a nation of hundreds of millions of folks so a few hundred thousand get to work at 'homegrown tech giants'? w00t!

toomuchtodo 11y ago

How terrible. Perhaps healthcare for all is tradeoff worth making. Or we can continue on as savages in the US. EDIT: I can see my karma for this comment is swinging around wildly. Consider the following: * You are (based on the typical HN audience) probably young now, most likely healthy. You will eventually get older, and will likely have medical issues eventually. * I argue that healthcare is not something to be earned, but something you are entitled to as a human being. No one should ever die from health reasons due to not having enough money. If its too expensive to do this (which is clearly false, as other countries are able to do so with less money than we spend in the US), we use R&D spending to ruthlessly drive down the cost. * I came to this point of view over time. I am a healthy young male. I've known people who have died because they couldn't afford healthcare. I've known someone who worked as a prostitute to pay for her SOs cancer treatment. My mother would not have been able to afford a surgery to mediate her degenerative disc disease in her spine without the affordable care act. I am not arguing for the elimination of the tech startup scene in order to have universal healthcare. I'm arguing for the transition to single payer and the streamlining of healthcare deliver in the US to lower costs AND ensure coverage for everyone. We're a first world developed country, and its about time like we acted like one.

davidw 11y ago
I don't think it's even a tradeoff: in countries like Italy, health care costs less, as a percentage of GDP, than in the US. In a startup like the one I worked at there, with about 30 people, there were 0 people in the company who had anything to do with health care stuff, because it's not the company that deals with it. That's a net win. Of course, there are other things that are not so good for businesses in various European countries, but I'd chalk up the health care system as a win for small companies and entrepreneurs.
werber 11y ago
I think lobbying to make profit based on suffering, ie. inflating the price of medicine, denying coverage, etc needs to be illegal. People literally die because of the profit incentive for the insurance industry.

jordan0day 11y ago

Is there supposed to be a cause-and-effect here? Because I'm not seeing how that's related?

s73v3r 11y ago

So the choices are to receive healthcare for all, or for a tiny fraction of the population to have the chance to maybe work for a shitty company that clearly hates their employees?

elektromekatron 11y ago

If you look at the list of the top ten wealthiest IT companies, other than the US you are talking about Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, all of which manage to have social provision for such luxuries, as you put it.

redthrowaway 11y ago

What the hell is it with Americans taking their broken healthcare system as a source of pride? You spend more public money on your healthcare system per capita than any country save Norway and Switzerland[1]. You would save money and be able to lower taxes if you adopted universal healthcare, yet you persist in your delusion that your shitty healthcare is what allows you to be an economic powerhouse. Insanity. [1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?order=wbapi_data_value_2013+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?order=wbapi_...

mmagin 11y ago
All I can conclude is that in US politics, it's far more politically suicidal to give things away to individuals for free than to waste government money.
Florin_Andrei 11y ago
America is not a forward-thinking country anymore. This is not yet apparent for everyone, simply because very large amounts of financial and military power are still amassed here, which allow the country to dominate the world. But its ethos is falling far behind the times. That will take a while to unravel.
monocasa 11y ago
It's because since your healthcare is intrinsically linked to your employment, it gives management a leg up on labor.

mgkimsal 11y ago

"the option of working for a (homegrown) tech giant isn't even available" umm.... so what? we should sacrifice the health of a nation of hundreds of millions of folks so a few hundred thousand get to work at 'homegrown tech giants'? w00t!