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You need people who can cover in leadership positions - this happens all the time, how do you handle a leader going on a 3-week vacation to Bali? Obviously, lo

You need people who can cover in leadership positions - this happens all the time, how do you handle a leader going on a 3-week vacation to Bali? Obviously, longer term absences are qualitatively different, but again not insurmountable. More importantly though is that not only had someone else taken over her position permanently, but she was put on a PIP. A PIP is usually reserved for extremely poor performers who are on the razor's edge of termination, not an otherwise good performer who just returned from an extended absence. But of course I know multiple people at Amazon who had PIPs used against them politically - a PIP is an employment lawsuit mitigation strategy, even though it's a "Performance Improvement Plan" there is never an actual intention to follow through, it's always the precursor to firing. Her team being taken away from her because she went on maternity leave is extremely shitty. Her being put on a PIP immediately after returning is what takes this from "shitty" to "heinous".

pc86 11y ago
> there is never an actual intention to follow through, it's always the precursor to firing. No, it's not. I've had employees on PIPs that are here years later with no problems.
- Spooky23 11y ago
  Individual contributors, sure. I've never seen someone in a leadership position who had their staff suddenly stripped away and put on a PIP for not delivering make it through without some "divine" intervention.
  - potatolicious 11y ago
    Not to mention PIPs-out-of-nowhere IMO always represent a decision that has already been made, and the PIP is just the follow-through. If this is genuinely a case where your manager has repeatedly told you about your poor performance, and is now going official with a PIP, then yeah, probably recoverable if you get your head screwed on right and do a great job. But a PIP that hits you out of left field unexpectedly is pretty much always a political maneuver, and represents a decision to fire you that has already been made.
amyjess 11y ago
> But of course I know multiple people at Amazon who had PIPs used against them politically - a PIP is an employment lawsuit mitigation strategy, even though it's a "Performance Improvement Plan" there is never an actual intention to follow through, it's always the precursor to firing. I understand that it's less about providing evidence to sink lawsuits (so many PIPs don't hold up to legal scrutiny: it actually opens less liability for a company to say "we're firing you because we don't like you" than it is for them to issue a PIP) as it is about demoralizing the employee and making them feel like terrible people, so they feel like them getting railroaded because of office politics is their fault, a) so they don't want to file a lawsuit and b) so vengeful managers can dig the knife in a little deeper and humiliate their victim. Honestly, the best thing to do when given a PIP is to immediately start sending your resume out and calling any contacts that might lead to a new job. If you have enough of a nest egg to afford to be unemployed while you're looking for your next job, go ahead and put your two weeks' notice in the day you get the PIP.

pc86 11y ago

> there is never an actual intention to follow through, it's always the precursor to firing. No, it's not. I've had employees on PIPs that are here years later with no problems.

Spooky23 11y ago
Individual contributors, sure. I've never seen someone in a leadership position who had their staff suddenly stripped away and put on a PIP for not delivering make it through without some "divine" intervention.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  Not to mention PIPs-out-of-nowhere IMO always represent a decision that has already been made, and the PIP is just the follow-through. If this is genuinely a case where your manager has repeatedly told you about your poor performance, and is now going official with a PIP, then yeah, probably recoverable if you get your head screwed on right and do a great job. But a PIP that hits you out of left field unexpectedly is pretty much always a political maneuver, and represents a decision to fire you that has already been made.

amyjess 11y ago

> But of course I know multiple people at Amazon who had PIPs used against them politically - a PIP is an employment lawsuit mitigation strategy, even though it's a "Performance Improvement Plan" there is never an actual intention to follow through, it's always the precursor to firing. I understand that it's less about providing evidence to sink lawsuits (so many PIPs don't hold up to legal scrutiny: it actually opens less liability for a company to say "we're firing you because we don't like you" than it is for them to issue a PIP) as it is about demoralizing the employee and making them feel like terrible people, so they feel like them getting railroaded because of office politics is their fault, a) so they don't want to file a lawsuit and b) so vengeful managers can dig the knife in a little deeper and humiliate their victim. Honestly, the best thing to do when given a PIP is to immediately start sending your resume out and calling any contacts that might lead to a new job. If you have enough of a nest egg to afford to be unemployed while you're looking for your next job, go ahead and put your two weeks' notice in the day you get the PIP.