4 ms·

What exactly has changed for you? How are you addressing it, and how does it cost so much more? I'm really curious, since on my end nothing has changed at all.

What exactly has changed for you? How are you addressing it, and how does it cost so much more? I'm really curious, since on my end nothing has changed at all. > I got hit with a 4500 euro 'overdue' notice This and the mention of the 100_000€ bill in the article makes me think one of the main issues seems to be incompetent handling by the offices in question. Does that seem accurate?

jacquesm 11y ago
For every subscription sold I have to record which country that person is from, prove that they actually were from that country and accurately account for and pay VAT into the coffers of that particular country's VAT administration. The MOSS makes this marginally easier but it is still a ridiculously complex system especially given the fact that there is no 'minimum amount' below which you can abstain from filing. Essentially you're going to have to have to spend 10's of euros per country per month to file pennies. It makes no sense. And incompetence on the part of the Irish authorities surely plays a part by they're not the only ones that came up with this scheme by themselves.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Ok, now i understand the sitation more clearly. Thanks for the accurate description. The main issue is when dealing with non-business customers. Sounds to me like there might be a market niche for escrows that will process the payments for local business and handle the tax issues.
hrbrtglm 11y ago
> since on my end nothing has changed at all. If nothing changed at all, you may be doing it wrong. Which country are you billing from, which european countries are you selling to ? Are you selling a single product/services, several with each different tax rates ? How do you know which VAT rates you have to apply, are you vatmoss registered ? It's a difficult subject, I'm really surprised it seems so easy for you (or anybody else)
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Germany to UK, Germany and France. I sell my services as a developer. And according to my tax advisor (who has power of attorney for me and handles everything) my invoices to UK and France are perfectly fine with a note stating that they are without VAT due to specific laws in the respective countries. And i think that maybe the fact that it is difficult for some people, but a complete non-issue for others is what keeps this entire issue from being effectively communicated to europe at large; since everyone talking about it treats it like the end of the world, but doesn't give specific details on the issues or the costs; while for many people they don't even need to think about it.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    I'm sorry but you might want to get a 2nd opinion B2B services in the UK are VAT taxable. Since you are delivering services from outside of the UK a reverse charge needs to be assigned. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatpossmanual/vatposs06300.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatpossmanual/vatposs06300.ht... In the UK there's also a difference in VAT and taxation if you are registered as self employed, contractor or if you are running you own business. HMRC actually has quite a good selection of tools for paying VAT and taxes that simplifies things to some extent especially for self employed individuals or contractors. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/online/new.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/online/new.htm Please note that in most countries you are still responsible for overdue taxes even if your accountant has power of attorney, you are the one who will be liable for it, you can sue your accountant for damages for sure but you'll be the one left stranded to sort things out if the payments were mishandled.
    - Mithaldu 11y ago
      Looking at the invoices, they invoke the reverse charge procedure, which is also mentioned in your link, and the german §196 MwStSystRL. That looks safe to me. What do you think?
      - dogma1138 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

For every subscription sold I have to record which country that person is from, prove that they actually were from that country and accurately account for and pay VAT into the coffers of that particular country's VAT administration. The MOSS makes this marginally easier but it is still a ridiculously complex system especially given the fact that there is no 'minimum amount' below which you can abstain from filing. Essentially you're going to have to have to spend 10's of euros per country per month to file pennies. It makes no sense. And incompetence on the part of the Irish authorities surely plays a part by they're not the only ones that came up with this scheme by themselves.

Mithaldu 11y ago
Ok, now i understand the sitation more clearly. Thanks for the accurate description. The main issue is when dealing with non-business customers. Sounds to me like there might be a market niche for escrows that will process the payments for local business and handle the tax issues.

hrbrtglm 11y ago

> since on my end nothing has changed at all. If nothing changed at all, you may be doing it wrong. Which country are you billing from, which european countries are you selling to ? Are you selling a single product/services, several with each different tax rates ? How do you know which VAT rates you have to apply, are you vatmoss registered ? It's a difficult subject, I'm really surprised it seems so easy for you (or anybody else)

Mithaldu 11y ago
Germany to UK, Germany and France. I sell my services as a developer. And according to my tax advisor (who has power of attorney for me and handles everything) my invoices to UK and France are perfectly fine with a note stating that they are without VAT due to specific laws in the respective countries. And i think that maybe the fact that it is difficult for some people, but a complete non-issue for others is what keeps this entire issue from being effectively communicated to europe at large; since everyone talking about it treats it like the end of the world, but doesn't give specific details on the issues or the costs; while for many people they don't even need to think about it.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  I'm sorry but you might want to get a 2nd opinion B2B services in the UK are VAT taxable. Since you are delivering services from outside of the UK a reverse charge needs to be assigned. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatpossmanual/vatposs06300.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatpossmanual/vatposs06300.ht... In the UK there's also a difference in VAT and taxation if you are registered as self employed, contractor or if you are running you own business. HMRC actually has quite a good selection of tools for paying VAT and taxes that simplifies things to some extent especially for self employed individuals or contractors. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/online/new.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/gds/online/new.htm Please note that in most countries you are still responsible for overdue taxes even if your accountant has power of attorney, you are the one who will be liable for it, you can sue your accountant for damages for sure but you'll be the one left stranded to sort things out if the payments were mishandled.
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    Looking at the invoices, they invoke the reverse charge procedure, which is also mentioned in your link, and the german §196 MwStSystRL. That looks safe to me. What do you think?
    - dogma1138 11y ago