4 ms·

Are you more bothered by the fact that the title might not be perfect, or by the fact that a bunch of sleazy lawyers are ripping off disabled people?

brazzledazzle 11y ago
It would be unfair of me to attribute this to the person you're replying to, but I've noticed that on sites like HN and reddit there seems to be a strange desire by some people to try to make things not about race, gender or sexual preference as much as possible. It's as if they are somehow lessened or hurt by it but I'm not sure how. Perhaps a feeling of guilt and wanting to deflect it drives that behavior. But it is present in the comments of a lot of articles that bring up or imply race, gender or sexual orientation is a factor.
- pavedwalden 11y ago
  I recognize the tendency that you are referring to. But in this case, it seems to me that race is more of a correlation than a causation. Yes, urban poverty is very entwined with blackness but, unlike things such as police brutality or criminal sentencing, it's not clear that a white person in the same position wouldn't be victimized in the same way. I don't object to the inclusion of "Black" in the headline, but it did strike me as odd in the same way that an article I recently saw elsewhere did. The headline was something like "This female chemist... yada yada". The article itself was about her work and didn't particularly mention her gender or any of the inequities she may have encountered. It seemed odd not to just call her a chemist, since you wouldn't specify a 'male chemist' unless there was a reason. In the greater cultural context it's clear why this extra information was included and it's interesting to think about what's implicitly being communicated. But since superfluously mentioning race or gender would be quite unacceptable in so many other contexts it's a little surprising to see it included in the headline.
  - brazzledazzle 11y ago
    I think in the context of institutional racism (what some snidely call the "academic definition" of racism) it's not as striking to see it in the headline. The issue of race in our country is much more complex than individuals and their interactions with each other. Both are important, but the assumption seems to be by the people doing the objecting that the only one of consequence is personal/individual racism between people. As far as the chemist goes, I think that despite the polite societal norm to refrain from mentioning it when it's irrelevant (which shouldn't go anywhere in my opinion) in the context of a news story we should mention it more. There's a serious issue with getting women into STEM fields and surfacing it even if it's irrelevant might deter the perception by young women and girls that they should avoid those fields. But that's my ignorant opinion without any studies to back it or anything. I could be entirely wrong.
    - pavedwalden 11y ago
      I don't know if you'll see this (does HN have a reply-notification feature?) but I really appreciated your response and (I presume, since I was at -1 when the thread settled down) the upvote that sent my comment back to "0 points" This comment thread was really discouraging and it meant a lot to me that you were willing to just talk about a small point we have different perspectives on.
      - brazzledazzle 11y ago
        No built-in notification unfortunately but I do check for them once a day or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually helps decrease vitriolic slap fights since we aren't instantly notified a la reddit. But yes, that was me that brought you back. I hate seeing calm discourse get downvoted simply because of disagreement. I actually like that I don't have that ability. Kind of refreshing. I'd like to think the karma requirement would help deter abusive voting but I see enough of it that I'm not so sure it's as effective as it could be. Better than nothing though, I suppose. But anyway, you're welcome. It's kind of funny but I felt the same way about the comments and your reply was really encouraging.
- mason240 11y ago
  >seems to be a strange desire by some people to try to make things not about race, gender or sexual preference as much as possible. This is something that Western Civilization has been working towards for well over a century now.
  - brazzledazzle 11y ago
    It's interesting how much a quote can change when taken out of context.
deleted 11y ago
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brazzledazzle 11y ago

It would be unfair of me to attribute this to the person you're replying to, but I've noticed that on sites like HN and reddit there seems to be a strange desire by some people to try to make things not about race, gender or sexual preference as much as possible. It's as if they are somehow lessened or hurt by it but I'm not sure how. Perhaps a feeling of guilt and wanting to deflect it drives that behavior. But it is present in the comments of a lot of articles that bring up or imply race, gender or sexual orientation is a factor.

pavedwalden 11y ago
I recognize the tendency that you are referring to. But in this case, it seems to me that race is more of a correlation than a causation. Yes, urban poverty is very entwined with blackness but, unlike things such as police brutality or criminal sentencing, it's not clear that a white person in the same position wouldn't be victimized in the same way. I don't object to the inclusion of "Black" in the headline, but it did strike me as odd in the same way that an article I recently saw elsewhere did. The headline was something like "This female chemist... yada yada". The article itself was about her work and didn't particularly mention her gender or any of the inequities she may have encountered. It seemed odd not to just call her a chemist, since you wouldn't specify a 'male chemist' unless there was a reason. In the greater cultural context it's clear why this extra information was included and it's interesting to think about what's implicitly being communicated. But since superfluously mentioning race or gender would be quite unacceptable in so many other contexts it's a little surprising to see it included in the headline.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  I think in the context of institutional racism (what some snidely call the "academic definition" of racism) it's not as striking to see it in the headline. The issue of race in our country is much more complex than individuals and their interactions with each other. Both are important, but the assumption seems to be by the people doing the objecting that the only one of consequence is personal/individual racism between people. As far as the chemist goes, I think that despite the polite societal norm to refrain from mentioning it when it's irrelevant (which shouldn't go anywhere in my opinion) in the context of a news story we should mention it more. There's a serious issue with getting women into STEM fields and surfacing it even if it's irrelevant might deter the perception by young women and girls that they should avoid those fields. But that's my ignorant opinion without any studies to back it or anything. I could be entirely wrong.
  - pavedwalden 11y ago
    I don't know if you'll see this (does HN have a reply-notification feature?) but I really appreciated your response and (I presume, since I was at -1 when the thread settled down) the upvote that sent my comment back to "0 points" This comment thread was really discouraging and it meant a lot to me that you were willing to just talk about a small point we have different perspectives on.
    - brazzledazzle 11y ago
      No built-in notification unfortunately but I do check for them once a day or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually helps decrease vitriolic slap fights since we aren't instantly notified a la reddit. But yes, that was me that brought you back. I hate seeing calm discourse get downvoted simply because of disagreement. I actually like that I don't have that ability. Kind of refreshing. I'd like to think the karma requirement would help deter abusive voting but I see enough of it that I'm not so sure it's as effective as it could be. Better than nothing though, I suppose. But anyway, you're welcome. It's kind of funny but I felt the same way about the comments and your reply was really encouraging.
mason240 11y ago
>seems to be a strange desire by some people to try to make things not about race, gender or sexual preference as much as possible. This is something that Western Civilization has been working towards for well over a century now.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  It's interesting how much a quote can change when taken out of context.

deleted 11y ago

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