5 ms·

> And how do we expect things like Windows Defender or Microsoft's handwriting and voice recognition to improve if we refuse to share back any anonymized inform

> And how do we expect things like Windows Defender or Microsoft's handwriting and voice recognition to improve if we refuse to share back any anonymized information with Microsoft? By opt-in approach and full transparency on what data's sent. Seriously, ask me "hey, can you help us?", provide an option to let me see what data exactly was, being and will be sent (NOT some multi-page legalese with notice that everything in there could change at company's discretion) - and unless you're sending something I really don't want to share (like actual raw texts I typed instead of processed statistical data), you're very likely to have my help. And, given the current situation, even praise the approach and suggest other to help the noble intent. There's a giant difference between this and a pre-installed black box that sends some data which contents I don't even know.

wldcordeiro 11y ago
You often hear the phrase "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" especially hear on Hacker News and around start-ups. Microsoft is taking the same approach. I agree that opt-in and full transparency would be the best in an ideal world. But the reality is that people don't care enough and most people wouldn't opt-in willingly or wouldn't realize what they could opt-in to.
- dingaling 11y ago
  > "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" Which works perhaps twice in the corporate world before you're thrown out on the street. In the realm of public opinion sometimes even once is enough to wreck a brand. For the first time ever I have non-tech colleagues asking me about Linux.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > You often hear the phrase "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" The more common phrase is easier rather than better. (Which is why the initialism form is EAFP rather than BAFP.) And it is easier. Also, however, more prone to adverse consequences when the answer to what you ask is "no".
yuhong 11y ago
How exactly? Would broad categories be enough?
- drdaeman 11y ago
  When I said "exactly" I meant an option to see down to exact data packets that were sent while participating in the program. Or, if we're talking about the initial consent - the example of such data packet. Obviously, they're machine-encoded (binary or XML), so the representation should be modified a bit to be more human-readable. I don't care that I won't know what most of metrics mean exactly ("magic mumbo-jumbo average time: 0.42us" or some hard-to-read probability matrices), but as far as I can see no raw personal data is being leaked out (my private file information, raw texts typed on keyboard, screenshots - this sort of stuff) it's probably OK. The important part is not me understanding the data sent, but the transparency about the program.
  - yuhong 11y ago
    There may be too many of them to do a full list of.

wldcordeiro 11y ago

You often hear the phrase "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" especially hear on Hacker News and around start-ups. Microsoft is taking the same approach. I agree that opt-in and full transparency would be the best in an ideal world. But the reality is that people don't care enough and most people wouldn't opt-in willingly or wouldn't realize what they could opt-in to.

dingaling 11y ago
> "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" Which works perhaps twice in the corporate world before you're thrown out on the street. In the realm of public opinion sometimes even once is enough to wreck a brand. For the first time ever I have non-tech colleagues asking me about Linux.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> You often hear the phrase "It's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" The more common phrase is easier rather than better. (Which is why the initialism form is EAFP rather than BAFP.) And it is easier. Also, however, more prone to adverse consequences when the answer to what you ask is "no".

yuhong 11y ago

How exactly? Would broad categories be enough?

drdaeman 11y ago
When I said "exactly" I meant an option to see down to exact data packets that were sent while participating in the program. Or, if we're talking about the initial consent - the example of such data packet. Obviously, they're machine-encoded (binary or XML), so the representation should be modified a bit to be more human-readable. I don't care that I won't know what most of metrics mean exactly ("magic mumbo-jumbo average time: 0.42us" or some hard-to-read probability matrices), but as far as I can see no raw personal data is being leaked out (my private file information, raw texts typed on keyboard, screenshots - this sort of stuff) it's probably OK. The important part is not me understanding the data sent, but the transparency about the program.
- yuhong 11y ago
  There may be too many of them to do a full list of.