4 ms·

> pharma topics are so hilariously ill suited for public discussion, so many half truths and misconceptions If the reason they're so ill suited for public disc

> pharma topics are so hilariously ill suited for public discussion, so many half truths and misconceptions If the reason they're so ill suited for public discussion is the half truths and misconceptions, statements like this one aren't doing anything to help: > once your precious baby gets born with no legs your stance will be a tad different

iofj 11y ago
Whilst I agree with you. I would like to point out that babies being born with no legs (generally with appendages missing) is in fact known to be one of the great screwups of pharmacology (though anyone reporting it today would undoubtedly hold the pharma industry responsible. In my opinion that is not a reasonable position to take. It was almost unheard of to do separate pregnancy testing (it's still not common at all), therefore blaming someone for not doing them is not fair). It is even a truism to say that medicine for pregnant women (when not relating to the pregnancy itself) is far behind "normal" medicine, as for most treatments it is not known what effect they'll have on the embryo, or if there will be interactions between the pregnancy and the treatment. Of course there is also a number of treatments that can't be used because they're known to be harmful, but not nearly as many. This crisis is one of the main reasons for this. But what caused babies with no legs: The softenon/thalomide disaster. Here's the full story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defects_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defects_cris... More photos illustrating exactly what went wrong can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia The scary part is that it was a problem relating to the chirality of the molecule used. Very few chemical tests of the molecule would have even revealed that there were two kinds of the molecule, and there was no good reason to assume one would cause deformed babies. In other words: this was extremely likely (and sadly) an honest mistake. 20000 deformed babies were born, about half survived (I went to school with a very cute and smart one). One enantiomer causes babies with missing appendages, one does not. Both help against a number of cancers, various serious diseases and there is some use as a sedative and it helps against morning sickness during pregnancy. Getting the chirality right is bloody hard, even for people with advanced chemistry degrees (especially getting to the required purity). This disaster is also well known for being one of the main reasons our current pharma regime is what it is.
- pinaceae 11y ago
  also to note that some agencies caught it (US, Austria) and some (Germany) did not. growing up with Germans of that generation makes it likely to encounter the effects of less regulated pharma first hand. the US was protected from it, which might explain the more prevalent ignorance here. like good fire protection lulling you into the belief that fire never happens. so lets splash around in gasoline, because freedom and conspiracies by big firefighters.
  - iofj 11y ago
    > like good fire protection lulling you into the belief that fire never happens. so lets splash around in gasoline, because freedom and conspiracies by big firefighters. Really made me think of the Zoolander movie : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnZ2XdqGZWU#t=2m16s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnZ2XdqGZWU#t=2m16s

iofj 11y ago

Whilst I agree with you. I would like to point out that babies being born with no legs (generally with appendages missing) is in fact known to be one of the great screwups of pharmacology (though anyone reporting it today would undoubtedly hold the pharma industry responsible. In my opinion that is not a reasonable position to take. It was almost unheard of to do separate pregnancy testing (it's still not common at all), therefore blaming someone for not doing them is not fair). It is even a truism to say that medicine for pregnant women (when not relating to the pregnancy itself) is far behind "normal" medicine, as for most treatments it is not known what effect they'll have on the embryo, or if there will be interactions between the pregnancy and the treatment. Of course there is also a number of treatments that can't be used because they're known to be harmful, but not nearly as many. This crisis is one of the main reasons for this. But what caused babies with no legs: The softenon/thalomide disaster. Here's the full story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defects_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defects_cris... More photos illustrating exactly what went wrong can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia The scary part is that it was a problem relating to the chirality of the molecule used. Very few chemical tests of the molecule would have even revealed that there were two kinds of the molecule, and there was no good reason to assume one would cause deformed babies. In other words: this was extremely likely (and sadly) an honest mistake. 20000 deformed babies were born, about half survived (I went to school with a very cute and smart one). One enantiomer causes babies with missing appendages, one does not. Both help against a number of cancers, various serious diseases and there is some use as a sedative and it helps against morning sickness during pregnancy. Getting the chirality right is bloody hard, even for people with advanced chemistry degrees (especially getting to the required purity). This disaster is also well known for being one of the main reasons our current pharma regime is what it is.

pinaceae 11y ago
also to note that some agencies caught it (US, Austria) and some (Germany) did not. growing up with Germans of that generation makes it likely to encounter the effects of less regulated pharma first hand. the US was protected from it, which might explain the more prevalent ignorance here. like good fire protection lulling you into the belief that fire never happens. so lets splash around in gasoline, because freedom and conspiracies by big firefighters.
- iofj 11y ago
  > like good fire protection lulling you into the belief that fire never happens. so lets splash around in gasoline, because freedom and conspiracies by big firefighters. Really made me think of the Zoolander movie : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnZ2XdqGZWU#t=2m16s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnZ2XdqGZWU#t=2m16s