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Ok, perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. Why are you referring ISIS here? You were talking about Turkey and Turkish people I thought.

by afsina 11y ago

acqq 11y ago
Using the example of extreme fundamentalism we can see that the successful leaders and their close supporters shouldn't be considered "ignorant" even if we are aware how dangerous they are. I also don't claim that they are the only kind of fundamentalists possible. And if you look at the map, ISIS isn't that far from Turkey.
- gkya 11y ago
  > And if you look at the map, ISIS isn't that far from Turkey. It's here already. About your argument on not considering fundamentalists ignorant, they are. First, ignorant does not mean idiot, or stupid. Ignorance is absence of objective knowledge. It's hard to believe that either a fundamentalist would wish to look at things objectively or one that does so would become anyhow a fundamentalist. There may be knowledgeable and smart people exploiting fundamentalists, to them I'm indifferent. All I care is the things that go, monuments, people, peace, the stuff the people are made of. Those are the things that bring tears to my eyes.
  - acqq 11y ago
    > Ignorance is absence of objective knowledge. I agree. > There may be knowledgeable and smart people exploiting fundamentalists, to them I'm indifferent. Don't be. They are the real elitists, the ones accepting the suffering of the millions of people as necessary in achieving their goals. Moreover, their beliefs are also often based on the ignorant premises (religious myths!). A good example of high levels that believe in religious myths are some US politicians: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/04/821847/-Republicans-Now-the-Party-of-Armageddon http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/04/821847/-Republicans... I'm sure you can identify the equivalent examples by politicians/activists closer to you.
    - gkya 11y ago
      I agree to your comment. What I do not like is talking about the secret puppeteers and the mysterious hands between the events. Here in turkey we like this sort of talk a lot. The Jewish rule the world. It's Americans' games anyway. Kurds want independence because there's petrol there. Illuminati. These may be true or not, but I'd rather deal with what I see. Speculations and conspiracies don't get you anywhere. Now I do not know if it's proved that the leaders of the ISIS are the people you say them to be, if such, all my comment is useless, but if not, I'd say that we first cut the tentacles, if we were to attack to the bad monstrous bug, then the head will have no room to escape.
      - acqq 11y ago
        > Speculations and conspiracies don't get you anywhere. True, but also read once, if you haven't, 1984, the book, per Wikipedia: "Winston works at the Ministry of Truth, or "Minitrue", as an editor responsible for historical revisionism. He rewrites records and alters photographs to conform to the state's ever-changing version of the truth" Then try to find how many people know what the countries did before, like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Always do your own research, sometimes the things that the leaders like to be ignored as the "conspiracy theories" in the current political moment actually happened and give a very different view to the whole context.
- afsina 11y ago
  All right I am lost already. Where did I praise, defend or reject the existence fundamentalism? And what is the relation ISIS being close to Turkey and OP's emotional name calling on Turkish people?

Ok, perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. Why are you referring ISIS here? You were talking about Turkey and Turkish people I thought.

by afsina 11y ago

Ok, perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. Why are you referring ISIS here? You were talking about Turkey and Turkish people I thought.

acqq 11y ago

Using the example of extreme fundamentalism we can see that the successful leaders and their close supporters shouldn't be considered "ignorant" even if we are aware how dangerous they are. I also don't claim that they are the only kind of fundamentalists possible. And if you look at the map, ISIS isn't that far from Turkey.

gkya 11y ago
> And if you look at the map, ISIS isn't that far from Turkey. It's here already. About your argument on not considering fundamentalists ignorant, they are. First, ignorant does not mean idiot, or stupid. Ignorance is absence of objective knowledge. It's hard to believe that either a fundamentalist would wish to look at things objectively or one that does so would become anyhow a fundamentalist. There may be knowledgeable and smart people exploiting fundamentalists, to them I'm indifferent. All I care is the things that go, monuments, people, peace, the stuff the people are made of. Those are the things that bring tears to my eyes.
- acqq 11y ago
  > Ignorance is absence of objective knowledge. I agree. > There may be knowledgeable and smart people exploiting fundamentalists, to them I'm indifferent. Don't be. They are the real elitists, the ones accepting the suffering of the millions of people as necessary in achieving their goals. Moreover, their beliefs are also often based on the ignorant premises (religious myths!). A good example of high levels that believe in religious myths are some US politicians: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/04/821847/-Republicans-Now-the-Party-of-Armageddon http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/04/821847/-Republicans... I'm sure you can identify the equivalent examples by politicians/activists closer to you.
  - gkya 11y ago
    I agree to your comment. What I do not like is talking about the secret puppeteers and the mysterious hands between the events. Here in turkey we like this sort of talk a lot. The Jewish rule the world. It's Americans' games anyway. Kurds want independence because there's petrol there. Illuminati. These may be true or not, but I'd rather deal with what I see. Speculations and conspiracies don't get you anywhere. Now I do not know if it's proved that the leaders of the ISIS are the people you say them to be, if such, all my comment is useless, but if not, I'd say that we first cut the tentacles, if we were to attack to the bad monstrous bug, then the head will have no room to escape.
    - acqq 11y ago
      > Speculations and conspiracies don't get you anywhere. True, but also read once, if you haven't, 1984, the book, per Wikipedia: "Winston works at the Ministry of Truth, or "Minitrue", as an editor responsible for historical revisionism. He rewrites records and alters photographs to conform to the state's ever-changing version of the truth" Then try to find how many people know what the countries did before, like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Always do your own research, sometimes the things that the leaders like to be ignored as the "conspiracy theories" in the current political moment actually happened and give a very different view to the whole context.
afsina 11y ago
All right I am lost already. Where did I praise, defend or reject the existence fundamentalism? And what is the relation ISIS being close to Turkey and OP's emotional name calling on Turkish people?