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I don't know where you visited in the US, but it doesn't sound at all like where I live. * Most people I encounter are happy and friendly, even the poor and un

I don't know where you visited in the US, but it doesn't sound at all like where I live. * Most people I encounter are happy and friendly, even the poor and unemployed. * I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol. * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public (in this state). * I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people. * I've never experienced more than cursory questions on entry to the US, with 1 exception: returning to the US on Sept 14, 2001 Personally, I've lived in and visited enough places around the world that I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.

Jach 17y ago
> ... I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China. Indeed. Personally I find the recitation of anecdotal evidence for how "free" a country is to be bollocks. Alright, so the country "feels" freer sometimes, but that's not a sound argument for its actual freedom.
jacoblyles 17y ago
>* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public. Have you tried this outside of a college campus? Pretty sure you can't.
- kscaldef 17y ago
  You can in Oregon. Our courts have ruled that our state constitution's guarantee of freedom of expression includes public nudity. (There are some minor quibbles over the exact extent of this but there are several large scale naked events in Portland every year, as well as some well-known naked people who show up regularly around town. There's also been cases like people mowing their lawns naked, which the police can't do anything about even in the face of neighbors' complaints.)
gnaritas 17y ago
> * I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol. More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people. > * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public. I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police. > I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people. Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
- kscaldef 17y ago
  > More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people. I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US. > I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public. > You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police. Malls are private property, not public property. The owners of the mall have every bit as much right to exclude someone being naked on their property as I do on my property. > Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar. Again, malls are private property. And, I suppose I can’t argue with whatever your experiences were, but I see lots of drunk people wandering about on a typical Friday or Saturday and the only ones who have problems with the police are the ones who try to start fights, or who won’t leave private property when asked.
  - gnaritas 17y ago
    > I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public. Interesting, but Oregon is rather progressive, which is why I think I'll eventually end up in or near Portland. I live in Arizona, it sucks. > Malls are private property, not public property. A bad example perhaps, substitute "the mall" with a stroll down a public street, in most states you'll be arrested.
deleted 17y ago
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Jach 17y ago

> ... I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China. Indeed. Personally I find the recitation of anecdotal evidence for how "free" a country is to be bollocks. Alright, so the country "feels" freer sometimes, but that's not a sound argument for its actual freedom.

jacoblyles 17y ago

>* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public. Have you tried this outside of a college campus? Pretty sure you can't.

kscaldef 17y ago
You can in Oregon. Our courts have ruled that our state constitution's guarantee of freedom of expression includes public nudity. (There are some minor quibbles over the exact extent of this but there are several large scale naked events in Portland every year, as well as some well-known naked people who show up regularly around town. There's also been cases like people mowing their lawns naked, which the police can't do anything about even in the face of neighbors' complaints.)

gnaritas 17y ago

> * I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol. More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people. > * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public. I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police. > I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people. Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.

kscaldef 17y ago
> More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people. I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US. > I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public. > You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police. Malls are private property, not public property. The owners of the mall have every bit as much right to exclude someone being naked on their property as I do on my property. > Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar. Again, malls are private property. And, I suppose I can’t argue with whatever your experiences were, but I see lots of drunk people wandering about on a typical Friday or Saturday and the only ones who have problems with the police are the ones who try to start fights, or who won’t leave private property when asked.
- gnaritas 17y ago
  > I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public. Interesting, but Oregon is rather progressive, which is why I think I'll eventually end up in or near Portland. I live in Arizona, it sucks. > Malls are private property, not public property. A bad example perhaps, substitute "the mall" with a stroll down a public street, in most states you'll be arrested.

deleted 17y ago

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